jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 10, 2016 6:54:57 GMT -5
Mountain lions roam that area, correct ? And attack humans on occasion. That should be a concern.
Wolf attacks on humans rare.
Amazed at how big wolf tracks are, must help them move thru snow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 10:49:22 GMT -5
Mountain lion attacks on humans are mostly in orange county about 75 miles north of the Lagunas were jean was hunting.
Never run away from a mountain lion. That qualifies you as prey. Wolves are dogs looking for big prey to share with a pack. Human tastes too much like porkchops for wolves. They prefer venison. Cats more cosmopolitan in their tastes.
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Post by Peruano on Jan 10, 2016 10:58:31 GMT -5
I’m not sure Jean deserves all of the grief that she is being offered.
Not everything in nature is known. New stuff can be discovered, especially in remote areas. That said it takes hard evidence to make a claim of a conspicuous animal like a wolf to be in an area where it has gone undetected for a long time (or ever). By the same token it takes a lot of evidence to say that they are indeed all gone from an area where they were or should be or could be based on proximity to known range etc. In this case even tho dogs may not be common in the area, wolves are even less likely there and we have to suspect human influence to have a greater probable role, than unknown natural history. As someone who had to glean data from field observations, from other peoples narratives, and from sometimes inadequate evidence in my profession, I often have to advocate conservatism (did I use that word) in accepting or advocating conclusions that are not strongly substantiated, no matter how much I might have preferred a different interpretation. IDs of rock on the internet based on scant photos are a good example of the potential for going beyond the data.
Not all rumors are false, and not all ideas are credible, but being out there thinking, wondering, and sharing deserves our respect and appreciation. Seeing how folks dress up their dogs, makes it easy to understand why wolves hide from humans. Cheers, Tom
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Jan 10, 2016 11:17:56 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is trying to give her any grief.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 12:42:27 GMT -5
I’m not sure Jean deserves all of the grief that she is being offered. Not everything in nature is known. New stuff can be discovered, especially in remote areas. That said it takes hard evidence to make a claim of a conspicuous animal like a wolf to be in an area where it has gone undetected for a long time (or ever). By the same token it takes a lot of evidence to say that they are indeed all gone from an area where they were or should be or could be based on proximity to known range etc. In this case even tho dogs may not be common in the area, wolves are even less likely there and we have to suspect human influence to have a greater probable role, than unknown natural history. As someone who had to glean data from field observations, from other peoples narratives, and from sometimes inadequate evidence in my profession, I often have to advocate conservatism (did I use that word) in accepting or advocating conclusions that are not strongly substantiated, no matter how much I might have preferred a different interpretation. IDs of rock on the internet based on scant photos are a good example of the potential for going beyond the data. Not all rumors are false, and not all ideas are credible, but being out there thinking, wondering, and sharing deserves our respect and appreciation. Seeing how folks dress up their dogs, makes it easy to understand why wolves hide from humans. Cheers, Tom Ill offer humble apologies if it seems i was giving my friend Jean a hard time. That was not my intent. Jean knows me Quite well and we have a wonderful friendship. Tom, that was super well written. Your essay portrays the true gentelman that I met a coupe, years ago in Quartzite. Thanks for sharing it. |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 10, 2016 14:46:04 GMT -5
Peruano, for the record, I am not feeling any grief. I made a statement without sufficient evidence. Y'all have only been pointing out the error of my ways! Open discussion is how things are worked out. I do not take offense. My absence on the forum does not mean I am pissed or anything, only that I have other sh!t going on. Are there wolves in the Lagunas? Without more information, I say maybe. But wishing it is so does not make it so. I thank you all for your thought on this. Sending love back to you, Scott! No apologies required.
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Post by Pat on Jan 10, 2016 15:56:24 GMT -5
rockpickerforever if I saw those foot/paw prints, I'd hope the owner was far away and not hungry. I wonder what such an animal would think if it saw my footprints!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 10, 2016 16:41:10 GMT -5
Dito what Scott said. All in jest Tom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 17:05:55 GMT -5
tom, for the record, I am not feeling any grief. I made a statement without sufficient evidence. Y'all have only been pointing out the error of my ways! Open discussion is how things are worked out. I do not take offense. My absence on the forum does not mean I am pissed or anything, only that I have other sh!t going on. Are there wolves in the Lagunas? Without more information, I say maybe. But wishing it is so does not make it so. I thank you all for your thought on this. Sending love back to you, Scott! No apologies required. I think it would be truly bitchin' to find a new population of wolf in an area they were never before known. Within 60 miles of downtown san diego makes it even better! The Lagunas are a special place. I say, lets put up trail cams! |
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Jan 10, 2016 19:22:13 GMT -5
If you have a wolf down there, the very best thing you could do is to quietly SSS.
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up
If they even think there might be even one wolf, they will block off lots of land from use.
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Post by nowyo on Jan 10, 2016 20:07:36 GMT -5
What Mark said.
Russ
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 11, 2016 0:39:50 GMT -5
I understand how both of you feel. Perhaps that's why, if wolves are present in any given location, it is not made public knowledge?
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 11, 2016 6:14:52 GMT -5
I drink coffee here with what I call the liars club (old farmers and miners) each morning and they sure were upset when they took the wolf season away and didn't unprotect the wolves this spring.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2016 2:32:59 GMT -5
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Post by Peruano on Jan 12, 2016 13:12:36 GMT -5
In other words, the curmudgeons should go to the Aleutians and leave our struggling wolf populations alone. North American wolves were never known to harass humans like the big bad wolf of fairy tales (he was European and an exaggeration at that). Much of the bad rap for wolves is poorly documented and over reaction by a few from the livestock industry and the urban dweller that has only heard the stories. Just my opinion. Tom
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2016 17:03:46 GMT -5
In other words, the curmudgeons should go to the Aleutians and leave our struggling wolf populations alone. North American wolves were never known to harass humans like the big bad wolf of fairy tales (he was European and an exaggeration at that). Much of the bad rap for wolves is poorly documented and over reaction by a few from the livestock industry and the urban dweller that has only heard the stories. Just my opinion. Tom In full agreement. Against killing predators all the way. Unless a human is in process of attack. The state of Georgia allows bobcat as a game choice which really chaps me. Cattle farmers probably have a different opinion. In the documentary(Alaska State Patrols) they discussed the wolf hunting at the desolate Aleutians which struck me as more of a weed out at 10/day. However game management had set those liberal kill rates based on the population of animals available to support the wolves. There was a mention of the first ever recorded wolf attack on a human in the United States months before the documentary aired. Wolf attacks on humans almost unheard of until this attack. Yes, fairy tales do abound regarding wolf attacks on humans. Wolves do reap havoc for the cattle folks though. And that is not my battle. I like your opinion Tom. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 0:34:53 GMT -5
In other words, the curmudgeons should go to the Aleutians and leave our struggling wolf populations alone. North American wolves were never known to harass humans like the big bad wolf of fairy tales (he was European and an exaggeration at that). Much of the bad rap for wolves is poorly documented and over reaction by a few from the livestock industry and the urban dweller that has only heard the stories. Just my opinion. Tom Montana and Idaho populations of wolf arent struggling. They have saturated their available habitat and have expanded into Oregon and even norther California. In Idaho its the elk that are struggling. Recruitment of the young is way down to to wolf predation. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 17, 2016 8:40:26 GMT -5
In fact human population and their land needs is the culprit in most cases.
Atlanta and surrounding counties have extended whitetail season and bag limits to reduce population.
Driven by lobby forces by the auto insurance companies to reduce deer impacts with vehicles.
WE are to blame.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Feb 4, 2016 13:48:22 GMT -5
The first publicly released video of the only known wild jaguar in the United States shows the giant cat roaming around a creek and other parts of a mountain range in southern Arizona.
"El Jefe"
This undated still frame taken from the first publicly released video of the giant cat, provided by the Center for Biological Diversity, shows the only known wild jaguar in the United States roaming in a mountain range just south of Tucson, Ariz. "El Jefe" — Spanish for "the boss" — has been living in the Santa Rita Mountains 25 miles south of downtown Tucson for over three years, according to the Center for Biological Diversity. (Center for Biological Diversity via AP)
Wow! Living so close to all those people, yet no one (well a few did) had any idea. Just goes to show how well adapted and camouflaged he is to the area, and that it must be pretty remote. Large animals can live undetected in some areas.
I spoke with the member of our prospecting club that has spent the most timer at starlight. He said he has never personally seen a wolf, or even a mountain lion on the claim, but is sure there are mountain lions present. He lives several miles down the road towards Campo, near Lake Morena. He said one jumped into the road and was slightly clipped by his car. It was uninjured, and went on its way. When he is alone on the claim, he "marks his territory" and always keeps a radio on to dissuade them form showing up.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 4, 2016 17:02:49 GMT -5
Kenton Joel Carnegie (11 February 1983 – 8 November 2005) was a 22-year-old Canadian geological engineering student from Ontario on a work term from the University of Waterloo who died in a wild animal attack while he was walking near Points North Landing. Landfill waste dumping in the area was fed upon by black bears and northwestern wolves, which may have caused them to become less fearful of humans. There had been no verified case of a fatality from a wild wolf attack in North America at that time. While in a cafeteria a few days before his death, Carnegie, who was described as gregarious, passed around close-range photographs of large wolf pups that had approached him during a walk in nearby woods; he was warned by a trucker that such encounters were best avoided. It is a matter of dispute whether Carnegie was ever made aware of an incident in which adult wolves had allegedly menaced a pair of walkers and tried to block their route back to the work camp. After reviewing evidence, which included wolf tracks left around the body, the finding of a coroner's inquest was that Carnegie had been killed by northern timber wolves.
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