|
Post by MrP on Jan 19, 2016 5:31:49 GMT -5
Double shaft motors not cheap MrP . Real interesting design, maybe a video is in the future. jamesp The only thing cheap in this hobby is the first tumbler you are given, then the cost keeps going up, more, larger, and better quality everything.
The motor runs fine and did quit way down with only running 10 min but the noise brought the price down. I almost think some of the noise is harmonics because of the high RPM it runs at......................................MrP
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 19, 2016 9:52:15 GMT -5
Double shaft motors not cheap MrP . Real interesting design, maybe a video is in the future. jamesp The only thing cheap in this hobby is the first tumbler you are given, then the cost keeps going up, more, larger, and better quality everything.
The motor runs fine and did quit way down with only running 10 min but the noise brought the price down. I almost think some of the noise is harmonics because of the high RPM it runs at......................................MrP
It would be nice to have an old mill w/water wheel and a creek full of coarse SiC sand. I have a spot for an easy installation for a 6-20 foot water wheel on a permanent creek... If there was a good market for tumbles... Turning tumbler barrels would be a great application for a water wheel except during hard freezes. Would have bet $100 that my Viking had bad motor bearings when initially turned on. Nervous about tumbler motors running with abrasives around them. Gambled and ran it anyway. Like you said, it is just the sounds of the set up. All that aluminum and fast motor driving the counters. Can the bearings be replaced in those older motors ? Replacement cost is high.
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 19, 2016 10:19:06 GMT -5
My guess would be that the bearing could be changed. Are they actually bearing James? Or bushings. If bushings it might make things smoother to change them to bearings. Its a 1/2 HP motor and could easily have bushings. On the upside I really think replacements would be easy to source.
Ok so now prove me wrong so I feel sad LOL
Cheers
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 19, 2016 11:18:12 GMT -5
My guess would be that the bearing could be changed. Are they actually bearing James? Or bushings. If bushings it might make things smoother to change them to bearings. Its a 1/2 HP motor and could easily have bushings. On the upside I really think replacements would be easy to source. Ok so now prove me wrong so I feel sad LOL Cheers About 99 that they are bearings Tom. And motor has those long thru bolts sandwiching motor caps potentially allowing disassembly. A giant bearing warehouse not 8 miles away. Have NEVER not had them have replacement bearings for many weird devices. Allow me a poke. Splitting an electric motor is a job. Like special tool city. Did you electrical guys design them that way or should the gun be pointed at the mechanical designers ? if it was the mechanical guys, I must shoot one of my own. Electrical guys, less forgiving, string up a noose and hang slowly.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 19, 2016 11:28:14 GMT -5
MrP, the hanging system makes better sense. Seems more awkward having the weight sitting on the springs in compression as the Viking is. Obviously no expense was spared on that Rockette. Just the frame would have bumped the cost way up this day and age. Gives some height for access too. Did you say the counterweights are adjustable ?
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 19, 2016 12:35:59 GMT -5
I don't actually know who designed them, I would think it was a collaboration though. We used to have to pull some big buggers apart at the pulp/paper mill I worked at. And I suppose you have in your career too. You may have to get both the noose and the gun for the motor designers:)
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 19, 2016 18:06:25 GMT -5
They should be in a separate category, Motor Designer Union. Knowing my luck my next boss may be a member.
|
|
|
Post by MrP on Jan 19, 2016 19:24:13 GMT -5
MrP , the hanging system makes better sense. Seems more awkward having the weight sitting on the springs in compression as the Viking is. Obviously no expense was spared on that Rockette. Just the frame would have bumped the cost way up this day and age. Gives some height for access too. Did you say the counterweights are adjustable ? jamesp Yeos the counterweights are adjustable. There are marks on the weights. The weights are side by side in the center of the shaft....................MrP
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 19, 2016 20:34:59 GMT -5
Hope to see that one run some day MrP. It is on my shopping list if a half decent deal comes up. Awesome purchase you made.
|
|
quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by quartz on Jan 20, 2016 0:13:53 GMT -5
I've disassembled many a motor, from fractional to 100 or so H.P., don't consider it difficult at all. Bored and sleeved the end bells on them at the mill when a bearing tore up its original bore. Bushing motors will have oiler holes to relube the bushings every year or so, depending on use. Bearing motors have no relube provision, or on occasion, zerk fittings for relube.
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 20, 2016 6:58:12 GMT -5
I've disassembled many a motor, from fractional to 100 or so H.P., don't consider it difficult at all. Bored and sleeved the end bells on them at the mill when a bearing tore up its original bore. Bushing motors will have oiler holes to relube the bushings every year or so, depending on use. Bearing motors have no relube provision, or on occasion, zerk fittings for relube. Yep, if you have the right equipment disassembly and re-assembly is a snap most of the time, there is always a nasty one. Impact, hoists, torch, bearing puller, something to heat bearings, hand tools and swear words. Now rewinding a motor is another form of hell LOL. Sorry not trying to hijack thread.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 20, 2016 8:18:44 GMT -5
I've disassembled many a motor, from fractional to 100 or so H.P., don't consider it difficult at all. Bored and sleeved the end bells on them at the mill when a bearing tore up its original bore. Bushing motors will have oiler holes to relube the bushings every year or so, depending on use. Bearing motors have no relube provision, or on occasion, zerk fittings for relube. Yes, difference between engineer whom used to hire it done verses the guy that actually does it. As tom says, good tools helps. Big monkey wrench man here LOL, no access to attach and tug #$%@#$, where's the sledge hammer !! No need to rub it in Larry L.
|
|
quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by quartz on Jan 20, 2016 11:30:44 GMT -5
I had no intent to rub in anything, related your comment to smaller motors we typically use at home. I've had lots of them apart at my workbench for a variety of reasons, generally neglect in their former life. Much prefer a decent used one over a new one that costs 10-20 times the money, me frugal out of necessity. As tom said, rewinding best left to people w/right equipment.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 20, 2016 11:40:42 GMT -5
I had no intent to rub in anything, related your comment to smaller motors we typically use at home. I've had lots of them apart at my workbench for a variety of reasons, generally neglect in their former life. Much prefer a decent used one over a new one that costs 10-20 times the money, me frugal out of necessity. As tom said, rewinding best left to people w/right equipment. Motors frustrate. Some can rebuild them, some not so lucky(me). Hats off to you guys that can. I have a high dollar 1/2HP that got slurry on it. Found it brand new at the junkyard. Retail was $280, got it for$20, a nice GE. Bearings shot from slurry spill. Replaced it with a junker 1/3 HP. To avoid the bearing replacement ordeal. It sits next to the tumbler and stares at me. Crying for attention. Maybe the cold weather is starting to take a toll....
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 20, 2016 16:29:04 GMT -5
James does your 1/2 HP have 4 rods with nuts on either end holding the end bells on, or 4 bolts in either end? It really don't matter. Pull the Nuts or bolts and pop the end bells off. Then slide out the rotor and if you have a puller take off the bearings. Heat up the old bearings and slip them on or break the never hit a bearing with a hammer rule and put a socket over them and pound them on. Put the sucker back together and you are done. Or just pull the rotor and take it to a starter/alternator/rewind shop and they should do it cheap. And if the motor is wrecked when you take it apart you have a new boat anchor. Don't let that sucker sit there and haunt you, just go for it!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2016 12:02:21 GMT -5
James does your 1/2 HP have 4 rods with nuts on either end holding the end bells on, or 4 bolts in either end? It really don't matter. Pull the Nuts or bolts and pop the end bells off. Then slide out the rotor and if you have a puller take off the bearings. Heat up the old bearings and slip them on or break the never hit a bearing with a hammer rule and put a socket over them and pound them on. Put the sucker back together and you are done. Or just pull the rotor and take it to a starter/alternator/rewind shop and they should do it cheap. And if the motor is wrecked when you take it apart you have a new boat anchor. Don't let that sucker sit there and haunt you, just go for it! "pop the end bells off" POP THE END BELLS OFF = Difficult Our beloved humidity makes this step an act of God Disassemble procedure not the issue. RUST RUST RUST RUST travels in to the inner and outer race and welds to shaft and cap pocket. The elevated temperatures over a long period of the season coupled w/high humidity creates a rust that is as strong as welds at times. Note high leverage handle ....the problem is sliding the caps out initially to get a bite. Cast aluminum caps often9usually) snap before bearing submits from existing contact point. Steel after 13 minutes(exaggerating) in our enviro LOL My greenhouse fan blades last 3-4 years, the rust eats them away. Then have to grind the hub off the motor shaft. it is bad down here. Sometimes liquid nitrogen works.
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 21, 2016 18:45:04 GMT -5
You are a millwright James, just do what the other millwrights do and get a bigger hammer. *ducks and hides from flying pipe wrench*
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 21, 2016 18:58:35 GMT -5
jamesp Yes rust can be really nasty. 90% of our motors in the mill were totally enclosed so not so much worry about rust. Except of course the bleach plant which is about the wettest place in a pulp mill. Due to some kind of politics well before my time the motors installed were just drip proof. As long as the motors ran, and 99% should be running 24/7 they stay hot and dry but when things get rusted they get nasty. Definitely need the right tools, heat would normally work to crack a stuck bearing but some times we had to cut them off with a torch. You had to be real good so as to not score the shaft. When you scored a shaft you had to wake up the welder and machinist to redo the shaft. Couple gallons of WD40 and soak for a month LOL. I like this forum best of any I have been on, we can talk about anything and no one gets mad. Well no one posts about being mad
|
|
|
Post by MrP on Jan 21, 2016 20:24:43 GMT -5
jamesp Yes rust can be really nasty. 90% of our motors in the mill were totally enclosed so not so much worry about rust. Except of course the bleach plant which is about the wettest place in a pulp mill. Due to some kind of politics well before my time the motors installed were just drip proof. As long as the motors ran, and 99% should be running 24/7 they stay hot and dry but when things get rusted they get nasty. Definitely need the right tools, heat would normally work to crack a stuck bearing but some times we had to cut them off with a torch. You had to be real good so as to not score the shaft. When you scored a shaft you had to wake up the welder and machinist to redo the shaft. Couple gallons of WD40 and soak for a month LOL. I like this forum best of any I have been on, we can talk about anything and no one gets mad. Well no one posts about being mad Worked at Blandin Wood Prod. in Grand Rapids, Minnesota making Blandex waferboard. I was a millwright electrician so worked on many motors and drives. We blew wafers from one building to another with huge blowers that had 250HP motors on them. If the blower wasn't balanced perfect we would lose a bearing. Because of the 3600 RPM and not balanced perfect we would end up with fretting on the bearing-shaft surface. Fretting is almost like a very fine rust and is caused by viberation. With having fretting the bearing could not be slid off without binding so they had to be cut off. The shaft was 4 7/16" so it took a lot of heat to cut the bearing off. The fretting actually helped protect the shaft from the flame of the torch.
The reason I gave all that info is to say that after cutting a bearing that size off you put a very small bump on the shaft from the heat of the torch. Now don't get me wrong the bump was very small but it was there. After the new bearing was installed it never lasted as long as the first one. We even started making sure the fans were balanced but that did not seem to help. After much research and getting a bearing specialist out to see why the bearing would not last he asked a bunch of questions and when we talked about the removal he immediately said cutting the bearing off will leave a bump on the shaft and bearings do not like bumps. New shafts and very expensive Split Bearings and of course a good balance took care of the problem......................MrP
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Jan 21, 2016 22:14:04 GMT -5
I didn't realize that the torch would leave a bump. Interesting stuff, I don't recall any troubles from it but that don't mean it did not happen
|
|