jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 6:33:16 GMT -5
Been considering an import of heavy steel parts from China one day. Emailing with an operation in Xinxiang, Henan China. Other provinces in China too. Henan a province, Xinxiang a county of said province. Reading about Henan on Wiki and it mentioned it has the worst air pollution of all Chinese provinces. ---Being greedy---, I figure the country with the lowest air standards would be the cheapest place to buy steel since it's manufacture is pollutive. Location: Comparing Henan province to LA, LA being the black line @ about PM2.5 concentrations of 10, Henan the tan line with +100. Source LA TIMES: www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-la-smog-stats-20140910-story.htmlSo you can probably rest assured that a freedom to pollute allows much cheaper manufacturing. I need large steel part. It costs $159 delivered to my state of Georgia(Port Savannah GA) all the way from China or $700 F.O.B. NE US. ---Being greedy---purchasing decision is obvious. This example quantifies some actual pricing comparisons. Have seen the quality level on these Chinese industrial parts and they are of excellent quality. Those rascals still have giant stockpiles of fine quality scrap US steel we practically gave to them. Remelt is fine steel. Inquiries made on purchasing defective steel parts and the China bunch puzzled by the inquiry. As if they have little defects. Seems that way anyway. On the other hand, I purchase defective parts from the states because they do not effect my product. The US company has a large defect rate. Mostly due to the quality or lack of repeatability of the steel. Enter left and right wing politics in this country. Things start to get complicated. Did the EPA force us to send such pollutive industries overseas ? Or are the ---Greedy--- corporations sending work overseas for cheaper labor ? Or to avoid US regulators ? Both ? Probably both. Would the rightest right wing bunch want to put up with such high air pollution ? We know what the left is going to say. Filtering air from such processes to EPA standards way raises production costs. conundrum So it is, left fight right and visa versa. We now have clean air but do not have jobs and proceeds from manufacturing to enrich our country financially. Both side have very good points. No winners in this arena. Signed, SmallbizTiddlywinksFirepits.com
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 9:50:39 GMT -5
I contacted a couple of local tank end plants and they have zero defects available. Said that it doesnt happen.
So maybe they have someone already?
Did you pull the trigger on the container?
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Post by mohs on Jun 5, 2016 11:03:30 GMT -5
nteresting james real interesting tanks for the thought experiment
Is it because China is a start up capitalistic enterprise ? Other countries trying to catch up & modernize ? That requires brute force.
One can only imagine the 1800’s when England industrialized. Those tales in Dickens were about industrial wasteland. I suppose Detroit & industrial centers in America had its own waste problems. There better now but the waste is mostly ghettos.
But to answer your question: I would imagine that corporations are always looking for the least regulated --cheapest labor possible,
mostly
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 13:16:50 GMT -5
I contacted a couple of local tank end plants and they have zero defects available. Said that it doesnt happen. So maybe they have someone already? Did you pull the trigger on the container? Scrap is a weird enterprise. Many companies deny having it. Others have people that are in already in place to remove or pay well for it. Others just want to remelt or avoid the liability because it is not listed on their product liability policy. Steel quality has a big impact on making bowl shapes. Some companies must scrimp on material quality. Safety is off, trigger ready. Played with half a dozen companies over there. Those companies would be so smart to hire an American to do their communicating. They give you a choice of pretty girl's photos to communicate with LOL. Some flirt, man, I just want a professional person to deal with that knows English. Income will dictate the container decision. And the market for other designs and sizes. No loans, sales has to finance such.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 13:42:04 GMT -5
nteresting james real interesting tanks for the thought experiment Is it because China is a start up capitalistic enterprise ? Other countries trying to catch up & modernize ? That requires brute force. One can only imagine the 1800’s when England industrialized. Those tales in Dickens were about industrial wasteland. I suppose Detroit & industrial centers in America had its own waste problems. There better now but the waste is mostly ghettos. But to answer your question: I would imagine that corporations are always looking for the least regulated --cheapest labor possible, mostly Yea Ed, corporations going for the least costs. That's just plain fact and the concern for a blue collar is probably long lost. Surveying these factories in China on Google Earth...the grounds look beat up and heavily trafficed. They have the technology to avoid pollution. They just don't seem to care. Their photos of the factory is 'eat an egg off the floor' clean. But the internet is deceptive as you well know. That PM2.5 number is off the chart. Younger generation has been flocking to the outback to avoid pollution. They have a massive nuclear energy campaign. Guessing they will utilize nuclear energy to clean some of the air problems up. Talking about lots of reactors in construction. In all respects, I think they have a 'whatever it takes' attitude to manufacturing. And the parts I want from them are metric, I wanted America Standards. Telling me they are their own customer. Don't think they are making this stuff for resale to US. Even in small quantities I deal with they were willing to retool to English dimensions at very cheap increase in my price. Very accomadating. And very persistent in getting you to order too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 13:46:32 GMT -5
Why does inches vs. centimeters matter?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 14:14:30 GMT -5
Philosophical concepts sush as veganism and environmentalism are luxuries only afforded to uber prosperous nations. They start with elitists who are jealous of others prosperity and use these new concepts as a controlling factor. Yes, doing so environmentally in the USA brought up the standard of living, so far. Its beginning to kill industry. Lead producton was recently banned in the USA. But in China, this is a luxury they seem to not care about.
I am quite sure there are very few "environmentalists, "tree-huggers", "vegan" and "transgenders" in China an Africa and other areas with large numbers of impoverished peoples. Just as they dont mind using mercury in the Amazon River in search of gold. Poor folks dont have time to worry about trivial shit like that. They gotta work and feed themselves first. No time for shit like 'i cant eat that, it has a face'. Notice even here in the USA us working class folks mostly dont give a rip about these things? Its the uber rich and uber entitled classes where you find these ideals.
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Post by mohs on Jun 5, 2016 14:45:05 GMT -5
I read- I think it was Columbia- that everyone's smokes no way you were going to live past 27 with war & strife
live dangerously ! build your homes on the slopes of Mt Vesuvius
some rocker once said
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Post by mohs on Jun 5, 2016 15:36:29 GMT -5
had a friend who taught English as second language in China I think it was in the very providence He told some wild stories about the working environment
as we know the Chinese are very prolific what is there population ?
in the olden times they had so many villager around the farm that around the clock they had people banging pots & pans to keep the birds away from eating the crop huge farms to
to me that just amazing not sure a scarecrow is as affective
we have an plastic owl on the roof birds land on it but not now to damn hot to fly
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 17:55:33 GMT -5
had a friend who taught English as second language in China I think it was in the very providence He told some wild stories about the working environment as we know the Chinese are very prolific what is there population ? in the olden times they had so many villager around the farm that around the clock they had people banging pots & pans to keep the birds away from eating the crop huge farms to to me that just amazing not sure a scarecrow is as affective we have an plastic owl on the roof birds land on it but not now to damn hot to fly They have had a one child per family rule for 40+ years. Not too prolific at all...
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 18:04:02 GMT -5
Why does inches vs. centimeters matter? I have had exact fit snuffer tops made for 6 inch increments. Metric is made in 100mm increments and they do not match.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 18:12:58 GMT -5
Philosophical concepts sush as veganism and environmentalism are luxuries only afforded to uber prosperous nations. They start with elitists who are jealous of others prosperity and use these new concepts as a controlling factor. Yes, doing so environmentally in the USA brought up the standard of living, so far. Its beginning to kill industry. Lead producton was recently banned in the USA. But in China, this is a luxury they seem to not care about. I am quite sure there are very few "environmentalists, "tree-huggers", "vegan" and "transgenders" in China an Africa and other areas with large numbers of impoverished peoples. Just as they dont mind using mercury in the Amazon River in search of gold. Poor folks dont have time to worry about trivial shit like that. They gotta work and feed themselves first. No time for shit like 'i cant eat that, it has a face'. Notice even here in the USA us working class folks mostly dont give a rip about these things? Its the uber rich and uber entitled classes where you find these ideals. Exactly. They all need a week at hunger camp. 7 days of rough would do all of them a world of good. Take drive on the other side of the tracks and open your eyes. Come back thankful for what you have.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 5, 2016 18:20:28 GMT -5
Life Cush here in the U S of A mohs. Easier to relate to people that had some hard times along the way. Builds valuable character money can't buy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 21:45:06 GMT -5
Life Cush here in the U S of A mohs. Easier to relate to people that had some hard times along the way. Builds valuable character money can't buy. +1! But a week ain't enough. Need 100 days of hardship to teach the lesson. Continuing education every 10 years. I am about 30 days into that right now. Beans and rice for me. Hope its not a other 2+ months. Economy changing folks. People have stopped remodeling. Stopped replacing whole house Windows. Stretching roof repairs until who knows when. This time last year I was selling 7-8 jobs a week with avg order of $6k. Now it's 4-5 a week with aov of $3k. "I can't afford more debt..." I hear it all day long from the kind of folks who would have bought last year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 21:49:17 GMT -5
Life Cush here in the U S of A mohs. Easier to relate to people that had some hard times along the way. Builds valuable character money can't buy. The 'homeless' dude at my freeway offramp has a crease pressed in his jeans, bright new Nike's and an iPhone 6! And he definitely has no job. See him 7 days a week morning noon and night at the same offramp. Poor in America are far better off than middle class in most of the world. Yet progressive politicians wanna fight 'poverty'... omg
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 21:49:55 GMT -5
Dude no slacker. He may be a tweaker but he ain't lazy!
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 6, 2016 0:07:24 GMT -5
Life Cush here in the U S of A mohs. Easier to relate to people that had some hard times along the way. Builds valuable character money can't buy. The 'homeless' dude at my freeway offramp has a crease pressed in his jeans, bright new Nike's and an iPhone 6! And he definitely has no job. See him 7 days a week morning noon and night at the same offramp. Poor in America are far better off than middle class in most of the world. Yet progressive politicians wanna fight 'poverty'... omg That's working out like the war on drugs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 0:51:50 GMT -5
The 'homeless' dude at my freeway offramp has a crease pressed in his jeans, bright new Nike's and an iPhone 6! And he definitely has no job. See him 7 days a week morning noon and night at the same offramp. Poor in America are far better off than middle class in most of the world. Yet progressive politicians wanna fight 'poverty'... omg That's working out like the war on drugs. Exactly. We have agreed on many points like this. Truthfully, all of the war on poverty stuff that is sold to the masses, mathematically, works out to help everyone but the poor. Therefore guaranteeing a forever war. IE: minimum wage $15 sounds good for the workers. BUT, the actual incentive there is for jobs to go to less expensive places, lost to automation, or simply never exist at all. As a reptile store owner labor was 38% of budget. @$9/hr + a little for performers. An increase to $15 means labor is 53% of budget, or a net 10% loss. The only way to respond is (a) increase prices proportionally or (b) kill jobs. No other choices. At all. For those on these precipice, thinking I am crazy and whom know some algebra. Run those numbers at $75/hr minimum wage. If $15 is good, $75 simply must be better. Right? At what point do customers simply say, fockoff, I don't need (that product)? Gasoline and food are two examples that people REQUIRE. both products are already being automated at increasing levels. One last example: Uber is fighting California over the concept of drivers being employees or not. By existing tax law standards they are not. They work where, when and if they desire. That ain't an employee. Cali may win. Its their courts and judges deciding, after all. BUT Self driving cars are are going to happen. Uber will be the first and largest buyer of fully automated cars. Drivers? What is that? A historically important job, but soon to be extinct indeed. Make workers more expensive, make automation more economically feasible. Workers lose. The war on poverty continues. And those million dollar taxi medallion in New York city? ROTFLMFAO
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 6, 2016 8:30:11 GMT -5
Safest business = NO EMPLOYEES And if you need help hire contractors-wife-part time trusted friends-waiters. That's it. America has about made it impossible to make money utilizing employees unless you are a big operation. A pristine working environment does help to attract hard working Americans. Make the job fun and interesting. Provide ATV's or scooters for them to use. Find people that love what you sell or love the work that they can do for you. ex. Urban person escapes hustle/bustle to work on secluded farm. Body builder whom wants to get a work out doing heavy work. I always needed a young buck Mondays and Tuesdays. Nice tall fit rascal. Hired waiters. Waiters patient with people, polite etc. They work Thur-Fri-Sat. Easy, go out to eat and watch how well one works self managing. See what he does unmanaged. Invite him to your table and request a spoon and then catchup and other stuff. Does he perform ? Ask for his hand and feel his hands for calluses. He will get the point, think your half crazy or queer lol. A great intro. You'd be surprised how well this works. One lasted 6 years, one 3 years, another 12 years. They are like my sons to this day. Older folks w/work ethics too. They(we) can be easy dependable employees. Apparently creativity is a prerequisite to finding people to work. Candler-12 years-about always stoned-but, work you into the dirt. 6 hours, no breaks $200. Fills plant pots, 8 trailers X 120 pots/6 hours, 960 pots @ $5/pot after I plant and grow out. Bargain both ways. Never even look his way.
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wampidytoo
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Post by wampidytoo on Jun 6, 2016 10:08:54 GMT -5
Safest business = NO EMPLOYEES And if you need help hire contractors-wife-part time trusted friends-waiters. That's it. America has about made it impossible to make money utilizing employees unless you are a big operation. A pristine working environment does help to attract hard working Americans. Make the job fun and interesting. Provide ATV's or scooters for them to use. Find people that love what you sell or love the work that they can do for you. ex. Urban person escapes hustle/bustle to work on secluded farm. Body builder whom wants to get a work out doing heavy work. I always needed a young buck Mondays and Tuesdays. Nice tall fit rascal. Hired waiters. Waiters patient with people, polite etc. They work Thur-Fri-Sat. Easy, go out to eat and watch how well one works self managing. See what he does unmanaged. Invite him to your table and request a spoon and then catchup and other stuff. Does he perform ? Ask for his hand and feel his hands for calluses. He will get the point, think your half crazy or queer lol. A great intro. You'd be surprised how well this works. One lasted 6 years, one 3 years, another 12 years. They are like my sons to this day. Older folks w/work ethics too. They(we) can be easy dependable employees. Apparently creativity is a prerequisite to finding people to work. Candler-12 years-about always stoned-but, work you into the dirt. 6 hours, no breaks $200. Fills plant pots, 8 trailers X 120 pots/6 hours, 960 pots @ $5/pot after I plant and grow out. Bargain both ways. Never even look his way. I have no advice for your steel problem. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Survival will probably make the choice for you. It is not possible to be the same as everyone else and different than everyone else at the same time. Pick your poison and hope it is not lethal. I do wish that I would have had your business savvy about employees back in the day. Finding good employees can be a full time job in itself leaving no time to actually do a job. Screened in porches and replacing windows not a place for a novice. Teach them then they move on to a big company that can pay better. Give them a phone so you can communicate and they run up a 200/300 dollar personal calls bill. Loose, loose situation. Easier to find unskilled but harder to find people willing to break their back but you seem to have it figured out. If you base your decisions on survival and not your heart (problem for me) you will survive. Jim
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