jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2017 7:00:37 GMT -5
Not sure about this, but, judging from the finish on the rocks in the rotary after the fifth day in AO 80 they may be ready for polish(AO 14,000).
I pulled a few rocks at day 5 and will run them with the next polish run(in the vibe) to see if they polish.
That would change my old rotary method of a week 220 a week 500 10 days 1000 = 24 days down to 5 days for 3 middle steps.
Rotary running conservative 30 RPM/6 inch barrel/80% fill/no slurry thickener/25% small agates/ave. size tumbles
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Post by captbob on Feb 24, 2017 8:55:58 GMT -5
What preceded the 5 days in AO 80? Meaning, if you weren't experimenting with the AO grits, what SiC grit would you have moved this batch to? Were they ready to go to 60/90 or 120/220 or...? Guess I'm asking if you are relying on the AO grits to do any more grinding & shaping or just using it to lay down a polish base.
I'm looking forward to playing with these AO grits. Most of my barrels running have passed that stage tho. With the big honkin' solo rock, it is running in 60/90 so I did a recharge with AO 60 (no clean out, just mixed 'em)
ETA: Maybe you've said, I don't recall - is this AO grit lasting longer than an equivalent sized SiC grit, or do they wear down at the same rate?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2017 9:11:37 GMT -5
Bob It looks like the AO 80 stays at 80 grit long enough to shave off the nasty SiC 30 pits and scratches easily. Since AO 80 seems to break down into 220-500-1000-3000 efficiently there may be no reason to consider any other need for 'polish base' abrasives. The AO 80 does very little shaping, it just does the polish base that 100-220-500-1000-3000 does.
So it catches the coarse scratches and removes them, then goes on and lays down a nice polish base. Full gamut.
Polish base = excellent terminology. Best tumbling term ever.
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 24, 2017 9:46:46 GMT -5
Are you using slurry with the AO? Thought you mentioned earlier you were not. If not, why not?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2017 11:03:42 GMT -5
Are you using slurry with the AO? Thought you mentioned earlier you were not. If not, why not? No thickener added Henry. Due to the thickness of slurry generated it is self made slurry at day 3-4 to melted milkshake consistency I tumble those 2 pound rocks without slurry protection in AO 80 and AO 22 but had barrel filled to 80-85% full. 1-2 pound rock with normal sized tumbles even at 85% barrel fill still breaks that AO 80 down in short order. Them heavy rocks speed the grind a lot, grit breakdown too. Those large AO particles do not stay size 80 very long. Maybe after 24 hours they are 220. **** I clean cap seal out after 24 hours to make sure no big particles are stuck there to come loose during a the close to 'polish base' run as captbob coined it so well.
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 24, 2017 11:43:42 GMT -5
Is "milk shake" as thick as it gets by day 5? Do you add water periodically?
I will be experimenting with AO 80. With standard protocol I either need to clean out daily or EOD, or spray to thin the mud. Especially with 120/220 SiC.
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Post by captbob on Feb 24, 2017 11:47:30 GMT -5
I will be experimenting with AO 80. With standard protocol I either need to clean out daily or EOD, or spray to thin the mud. Especially with 120/220 SiC. You talking about when using a vibe? (I hope!)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 12:13:48 GMT -5
Are you using slurry with the AO? Thought you mentioned earlier you were not. If not, why not? No thickener added Henry. Due to the thickness of slurry generated it is self made slurry at day 3-4 to melted milkshake consistency I tumble those 2 pound rocks without slurry protection in AO 80 and AO 22 but had barrel filled to 80-85% full. 1-2 pound rock with normal sized tumbles even at 85% barrel fill still breaks that AO 80 down in short order. Them heavy rocks speed the grind a lot, grit breakdown too. Those large AO particles do not stay size 80 very long. Maybe after 24 hours they are 220. **** I clean cap seal out after 24 hours to make sure no big particles are stuck there to come loose during a the close to 'polish base' run as captbob coined it so well. The finishing industry calls it a surface profile. A pre-polish profile if its ready for polish. Took awhile to wrap my head around that one. I like this polish base too. Well done bob!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2017 13:04:28 GMT -5
Is "milk shake" as thick as it gets by day 5? Do you add water periodically? I will be experimenting with AO 80. With standard protocol I either need to clean out daily or EOD, or spray to thin the mud. Especially with 120/220 SiC. That is about as thick as it gets(by day 5). Probably only a small amount of grinding is taking place to do anymore thickening after day 5. Never needed to water. Not enough mud production. Just started with water 1-2 inches below rocks as is normal. That would be 'melted milkshake', so not very thick slurry. Even with barrel 80% full and average size tumbles the AO 80 breaks down. The rotary tumbler breaks it down fairly easy. The vibe quickly.
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ubermenehune
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 24, 2017 13:05:16 GMT -5
I will be experimenting with AO 80. With standard protocol I either need to clean out daily or EOD, or spray to thin the mud. Especially with 120/220 SiC. You talking about when using a vibe? (I hope!) Yeah with a Lot-o. With my rotary, i just set it and forget it.
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ubermenehune
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 24, 2017 13:09:34 GMT -5
Is "milk shake" as thick as it gets by day 5? Do you add water periodically? I will be experimenting with AO 80. With standard protocol I either need to clean out daily or EOD, or spray to thin the mud. Especially with 120/220 SiC. That is about as thick as it gets(by day 5). Probably only a small amount of grinding is taking place to do anymore thickening after day 5. Never needed to water. Not enough mud production. Just started with water 1-2 inches below rocks as is normal. That would be 'melted milkshake', so not very thick slurry. Even with barrel 80% full and average size tumbles the AO 80 breaks down. The rotary tumbler breaks it down fairly easy. The vibe quickly. Oops. You were probably referring to rotary, while I was thinking of using AO 80 in a lot-o, after coarse grind.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2017 13:19:28 GMT -5
That is about as thick as it gets(by day 5). Probably only a small amount of grinding is taking place to do anymore thickening after day 5. Never needed to water. Not enough mud production. Just started with water 1-2 inches below rocks as is normal. That would be 'melted milkshake', so not very thick slurry. Even with barrel 80% full and average size tumbles the AO 80 breaks down. The rotary tumbler breaks it down fairly easy. The vibe quickly. Oops. You were probably referring to rotary, while I was thinking of using AO 80 in a lot-o, after coarse grind. Yes the rotary In the vibe I run the AO 80 wetter than normal because the AO 80 makes a fine melted milk shake slurry in the vibe also. Run for 3 days and added ZERO water. Don't suggest running vibe on the dry side making that cream. But not so much water that it puddles at bottom. Wetter than drip dry...I add 3-4 tablespoons extra water... Stones are glossy wet after 3 days, so quite wet. Then 18 hours in polish. Good luck. Please post results uber.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 25, 2017 7:10:29 GMT -5
Pulled these few pre-maturely(?) out of the rotary at 5 days in AO 80. Had been running in SiC 30 for 3 days. Looks like a fresh 1000 finish, matte. Certainly no shine. Pretty sure 18 hours in AO 14,000 in vibe will lay a liquid shine down. How much polish base is needed ? Will run soon. 5 days in rotary with AO 80: closer
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osuguy0301
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Post by osuguy0301 on Feb 25, 2017 7:44:13 GMT -5
Looking good James. Once I get my 4.5 lb Lortone out of my classroom this summer, I am going to do some runs of AO 80 to substitute for the 120/220, 500, 1000.
Jake
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 25, 2017 8:26:38 GMT -5
Looking good James. Once I get my 4.5 lb Lortone out of my classroom this summer, I am going to do some runs of AO 80 to substitute for the 120/220, 500, 1000. Jake I think all this got started when the SiC 220 ran out about 6 months ago. Used it after SiC 30 in rotary. Had the AO 80 already and never used it for anything. Decided to do a vibe run with AO 80 instead of SiC 220. Pulled a rock out of the vibe in AO 80 after 2 days and noticed a nice polish that never happened with SiC 220 in the vibe even after 4 days. Knew something was happening in a good way. An example of a softer tougher abrasive covering more grit sizes via breakdown for our Mohs 5-7.5 rocks. Over the past few months I gave away AO 500 SiC 500 AO 1000. Good luck w/it. May be a good abrasives education for the kids. Abrasives is a career in itself.
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Post by captbob on Feb 25, 2017 8:42:26 GMT -5
Pulled these few pre-maturely(?) out of the rotary at 5 days in AO 80. Had been running in SiC 30 for 3 days. 3 days in 30 grit gave that shape from rough? Or pre-shaped? Even pre-shaped that's pretty nice freakin' amazing for 3 days in 30! So you aren't getting any, or much, further shaping when you switch over the the AO?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 25, 2017 9:02:04 GMT -5
Pulled these few pre-maturely(?) out of the rotary at 5 days in AO 80. Had been running in SiC 30 for 3 days. 3 days in 30 grit gave that shape from rough? Or pre-shaped? Even pre-shaped that's pretty nice freakin' amazing for 3 days in 30! So you aren't getting any, or much, further shaping when you switch over the the AO? Sorry, those rocks were in the last grit addition of SiC 30. They were rolled 3-4 weeks with at least half dozen SiC 30 additions. Just saying that they had a 3 day SiC 30 finish before the AO 80. Surface not so smooth, yet AO 80 removed the 3 day SiC 30 finish. No, not much shaping rom AO 80 if any. Heck, the AO 22 was broken down past 80 in a day, probably more like 200 in a day. AO just does not cut deep. Maybe on obsidian...
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Post by captbob on Feb 25, 2017 9:11:47 GMT -5
Got a load coming out of final burnish today and then another tomorrow. Will have empty barrels to start new batches in. Gonna be playing your - coarse grit - AO grit - polish - game on a couple loads. On what rocks I haven't decided. See if I can forgo all those intermediate steps.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 25, 2017 9:22:09 GMT -5
Got a load coming out of final burnish today and then another tomorrow. Will have empty barrels to start new batches in. Gonna be playing your - coarse grit - AO grit - polish - game on a couple loads. On what rocks I haven't decided. See if I can forgo all those intermediate steps. Seems to be user friendly. I have tried it all ways. Short runs and long runs w/the AO 80 and AO 22. Vibe and rotary. Can't seem to mess up a polish so far. However, never have completed polish with rotary, just vibe. Got a batch that will go to polish in the rotary now. tims just did a AO 80 to polish in a rotary, fine shine. Even with the extreme AO 22, it seems to behave exactly like the AO 80. Get the same results go figure. I would use it on agates and other Mohs 7 rocks. No experience with softer rocks.
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Post by captbob on Feb 25, 2017 11:09:20 GMT -5
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