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Post by mohs on Sept 18, 2021 13:08:52 GMT -5
This is the oldest largest Palo Verde I’ve seen so far  Many young ones get beat up in the monsoon storms This one thrived It was taken at Double Buttes. Below is historic Cemetery There is huge hotel complex built up on the Buttes The Double Buttes are ½ mile south west of Tempe Butte/ I –10/ Broadway interchange road cut intersect them Frank Cushing of the famed Hokokam 1887 archaeological digs at Snaketown found rituals artifacts in a secreted cave in these Buttes. keep searching and that Palo Verde Tree may have been around at that time certainly the saguaro |
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Post by mohs on Sept 21, 2021 21:07:16 GMT -5
Sunset over White Tanks from the Double Buttes Monday  What was really cool and yes it was Do a 180 and catch the Harvest Moon  Rise over the Superstitions It was Butte ! the lonely labors of a master zenjeros  I put that there for a reason  |
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Post by mohs on Oct 6, 2021 16:33:07 GMT -5
For the archives The Salt River from the Riverview Overpass  It was a fairly serious river Certainly no Columbia  Butte pretty deep and wide Hohokam - and now this mega city known as Phoenix - as utilized it flow maximally Roosevelt Damn is what put Phoenix on the map So the Salt still lives! |
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Post by 1dave on Oct 6, 2021 21:20:23 GMT -5
It has flowed way beyond the high banks that show what a terror it has been. Imagine the Worn Out People glancing up to see the torrent ripping down on them at 300 miles per hour!  |
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Post by mohs on Oct 7, 2021 12:41:40 GMT -5
Right on dave
Never saw the Salt in its meandering glory days
Do recall couple flash floods
Those Hokoams knew what to do
Get to Tempe Butte- shine a light
the Hohokanm did get overwhelmed
w/canal maintenance and other social type issues
which caused their collapse
it is interesting because
during 1400 – 1450 A.D. time period
something occurred across North America
that caused the collapse
not only of the Salado
butte also
the Cahohokia Mound Builder in the Midwest...
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Post by 1dave on Oct 7, 2021 14:46:57 GMT -5
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Post by RickB on Oct 15, 2021 19:51:42 GMT -5
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Post by mohs on Oct 15, 2021 22:32:54 GMT -5
Thanks RickB Good paper They make a point about using clear quartz for their arrows The word clear really throws me. Hard to find clear quartz in the valley If the clear variety was a preferred stone – then Payson may have been the source There is an area up there where clear crystals are found Maybe the word clear quartz referential is just semantic inclusion? Don’t know if in knapping -there is big difference between clear and milky white quartz? Any thoughts on that & quartz in general as a knapping material ? may be making to big a deal out of my quartz peak location Doesn’t seem like it gets mentioned in any of the literature find that strange Anyway I’ll keep researching Maybe I'll write Tim Bostwick O and that article did mention that the Hohokam knapped andesite. I got a big buttiful block of that rock found in Papago Park Come morning I’ll get some pictures… |
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Post by RickB on Oct 16, 2021 10:15:08 GMT -5
Ed mohs in that article they noted that larger cutting tools were made out of quartzite and andesite from a primary flake. The primary flake they show is rounded except for the flat side that was sheared off. They used to get a river tumbled large pebble or small cobble and split it in half by a technique called bipolar reduction. That would involve holding the pebble/cobble on it's end on top of a large flat rock anvil. They would then strike the pebble/cobble with a larger and heavier hammerstone than the cobble was. This would split it into two flat pieces. Both of the split pieces could then be shaped as tools as needed. Clear quartz, if they could find it, would be preferred by them over milky as they could visually see that it had fewer issues than a lot of the crystalized or fractured white quartz has. The quartz deposit you found should have knapped flakes around the area somewhere if it was being used to make points or tools. Be on the lookout for those flakes. Chert, jasper, obsidian, chalcedony, high grade pet wood would be the best material for making points if they had it available. |
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Post by mohs on Oct 16, 2021 17:04:20 GMT -5
right on RickB Thanks as promised and Picture does no justice to this buttiful leaverite. Andesite! Ha  That not totally true Although I took the picture with my Samsung tablet To try its feature out I believe it to be andesite Very fine grained & the grayish coloring lends it to be andesite as opposed to a rhyolyte-- in mohs estimation Seems like it would have that conchoidal fracturing that a point maker would seek. Fairly abundant around the valley so Hohokam would have available source Although it probably not a desired trading article Plus I would think it must have been worked by the Inca’s The word andesite is taken from the Andes Mountain Although Maybe it’s a chert? |
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Post by mohs on Oct 17, 2021 9:08:16 GMT -5
mohs The Hohokam were an interesting culture. I just finished reading an article about them. Have you ever run across one of the ball courts? Hi Beth I brought your question over here For future archival sake I’ve never stumbled upon a Hohokam ball court that I’m aware of There were quite a few scattered across the valley and the state Have seen them at known Hohokam sites Pueblo Grande Also visited Casa Grande Mesa is difficult to access. They don’t have it open for touring often SnakeTown a nogo The ball courts are interesting phenomenon. Origin of the courts seem to have come up from Meso-America Perhaps that is origins of the Hohokams too? They don’t really know for sure. Ball courts were established right from the beginning of Hohokams settlements. Perhaps as earlier as 50 b.c. ? A most interesting thing is that ball court lost favor Maybe starting around 1300 A.D The platform mounds became more dominant Something was changing…. Here’s one at Pueblo Grande  They are hard to photograph and pretty neat large circumference & perhaps 8-foot depth Not quite as large as football field, Butte I can image the frenetic activity of the players were rough and tumble Would imagine that most cities & states have archaeology dept. Southwest Archeology lectures, tours, ect... are very active.. Thanks ! |
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Post by fernwood on Oct 17, 2021 9:16:21 GMT -5
Thanks for your insights.
Several different ball games were played by tribes in the Upper Midwest. All of those used rock balls. I found the rubber balls of the Hohokam interesting.
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Post by mohs on Oct 17, 2021 13:56:53 GMT -5
Thanks for your insights. Several different ball games were played by tribes in the Upper Midwest. All of those used rock balls. I found the rubber balls of the Hohokam interesting. I'm doing a little research on the Algonquin people and related people Got interested in the concept of Midewiwin or Grand Medicine Society Henry Wallace mentioned it in a Hohokam Lecture ball court society pretty interesting on what can be speculated on how the societies were structured. If you have any article or such on early Wisconsin natives do post... |
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 17, 2021 15:05:03 GMT -5
Thanks for your insights. Several different ball games were played by tribes in the Upper Midwest. All of those used rock balls. I found the rubber balls of the Hohokam interesting. I'm doing a little research on the Algonquin people and related people Got interested in the concept of Midewiwin or Grand Medicine Society Henry Wallace mentioned it in a Hohokam Lecture ball court society pretty interesting on what can be speculated on how the societies were structured. If you have any article or such on early Wisconsin natives do post... Algonquin people? You mean the folks that sat around the round table at the Algonquin Hotel? Pretty interesting group. Any group that included Harpo Marx is ok by me!! |
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Post by mohs on Oct 17, 2021 16:32:48 GMT -5
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 17, 2021 21:24:20 GMT -5
That's Harpo in the center back, not easy to recognize without his character's wig. I once read something about him from one of the writer's or directors who worked with Marx Brothers movies responses when asked how do you write for the Harpo character?, you just say, "Harpo enters" and he just goes about being Harpo!! |
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Post by mohs on Oct 19, 2021 17:08:44 GMT -5
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Post by mohs on Oct 22, 2021 15:29:00 GMT -5
came across this grand Eucalyptus in the Salt  must be 100 years old |
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Post by mohs on Sept 16, 2022 15:00:07 GMT -5
This was most informative
MSC Geology of Phoenix Valley
Especially for insight to how the Papago formed
As a accumulation of sedimentary landslide
Doesn’t answer all my question
the definitive truth may be lost
in geological maelstrom
anyway
thrilled that I am present for the kick off
of another rock season
fingers crossed that I will be exploring
these areas
ssssoooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Post by RickB on Dec 31, 2022 23:07:14 GMT -5
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... to the New Guys from The ChatBox V.2 Crew