rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
|
Post by rollingstone on Jun 1, 2017 4:40:30 GMT -5
Well, I'm not even sure if this will work or not, as the biggest stone I've ever done in my 6 lb barrels before now was a 1 lb rock. But the one-pounder turned out well, so let's triple-down. My current tumbling project is a river-worn chunk of Mariposa or Hornitos poppy jasper (that will probably cause some debate, but I bought it over 5 years ago so don't remember which one it was called). Anyway, a river did a bunch of the work for me, smoothing much of the exterior. I have just displayed this as a rough specimen for the past 5 or so years, but I always wanted to see it polished so thought I would finally give it a go in my tumbler. Here's the raw chunk, sitting in my 6 lb barrel. Clearly it won't tumble like that, so after this photo was taken, I knocked off a small piece from one end with a hammer and chisel so the stone would be able to kind of roll or at least move around in the tumbling barrel. I then spent many hours with a Dremel tool, about 10 hours I think?, or maybe that was 10 charges of a Dremel?, gradually grinding away the rough spots so the rock would smooth more quickly in coarse grind. Interestingly, all that Dremel grinding only ended up removing 14 grams, or about 1/2 ounce of the rock, reducing it from 1326 grams, to 1312 g. I then tumbled it, and the tumbling removed an additional 20 to 23 g each week. This is how it looked after dremelling, but just before tumbling. It was not a gentle tumble. It bashed and crashed around like you wouldn't believe, and every so often it would jam up with the other stones in the barrel and nothing would move. Then I'd have to open the barrel and free things up so they could bash and crash around again. All of this was very tough of course on the other stones in the barrel, as well as on the barrel and gasket, but it was kind of survival of the fittest, with the more solid stones doing okay, while the fractured stones ended up getting pulverized or at least reduced to smaller sizes. But that was okay, since I want smaller stones to balance out against the big piece of jasper when I move on to the finer stages. I finished the coarse tumble of the big piece of jasper some time ago, but I didn't have enough smaller stones to progress to the finer tumbling stages. That's where I'm at right now, tumbling various materials to create enough small material that has been through coarse grind to fill out a barrel so I can see if I can actually polish this big piece of jasper. Here's how things look now, with almost enough fines to begin the fine-grind stage. Should have enough material to begin fine grind in a week or two.
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 1, 2017 5:07:06 GMT -5
That's a fun experiment. Thanks for remembering to take pictures along the way. I can't wait to see that monster finished.
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,711
|
Post by Fossilman on Jun 1, 2017 15:29:35 GMT -5
All experiments are worth taking......Looks like its coming along nicely....
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 1, 2017 20:03:41 GMT -5
Tanks for putting this up for us to study. Most of us wont do this but there are a lot of interesting things that wil be learned. Was the "crashing and bashing" a lot less after getting some roundness. This is the biggest Thors hammer I ever heard of. Seeing what types of damage on the main stone and the smaller tumble?? Would love to build a large tumbler and tumble pieces this size. Fun stuff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 22:49:38 GMT -5
Respect
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Jun 2, 2017 0:12:12 GMT -5
Good for you!
I have two 15 lb barrels running now each with just one rock in them. BIG rocks! And ceramics only as filler. I do stuff like that to amuse myself and see if it can be done.
It can! Just takes a while.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 9:08:30 GMT -5
I'm running similar experiments. When you have a big one in there a couple things happen.
Grit is used up in hours not days.
Rounding is fast and stone volume is lost rapidly. (Hence the bashing)
Bashing is corrected by adding fresh smalls.
Can't wait to see your end product!
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 2, 2017 10:09:53 GMT -5
Good for you! I have two 15 lb barrels running now each with just one rock in them. BIG rocks! And ceramics only as filler. I do stuff like that to amuse myself and see if it can be done. It can! Just takes a while. Got big stones Bob?? grin
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Jun 2, 2017 10:30:58 GMT -5
Yuge! NO time for little rocks. ETA: Oh and rollingstone , that big 'un is definitely not maripostie, so I reckon it's hornitos. (not sure anyone answered that) Sure would like to see that wet and when you have finished tumbling it! Picture 3 above is finished with the coarse tumble?
|
|
rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
|
Post by rollingstone on Jun 2, 2017 21:05:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the interest and encouragement!
Coloradocliff - the big stone was fairly well rounded by the river already, so the bashing and crashing didn't change much from when I started coarse grind to when I finished. I don't see any damage to the big stone, in fact its surface seems to have cleared up and smoothed up very nicely. The smaller stones did take a beating -- if they had fractures in them then they would likely break along those fractures, which isn't really a bad thing. If they were too small or too thin then they could just get pulverized or chipped so badly as to become useless.
Captbob - yes, picture 3 is the big stone finished coarse grind and sitting in the fine grind barrel, waiting for enough rounded smaller stones to begin the run through fine grind, pre-polish and polish. I found in coarse grind that I have to somewhat overload the barrel, to at least 3/4 full, to limit the amount of crashing. If I ran the barrel 2/3 full then it would really smack things around and it was kind of stressful to listen to. If I went much more than 3/4 full then the small stones would jam up with the big stone and the tumbling action would stop. There is definitely a sweet spot when rolling a stone almost as wide as the barrel!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 3, 2017 6:47:35 GMT -5
I'm running similar experiments. When you have a big one in there a couple things happen. Grit is used up in hours not days. Rounding is fast and stone volume is lost rapidly. (Hence the bashing) Bashing is corrected by adding fresh smalls. Can't wait to see your end product! Grit is used up in hours. Cool project, anxious to see results.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 8:04:08 GMT -5
I'm running similar experiments. When you have a big one in there a couple things happen. Grit is used up in hours not days. Rounding is fast and stone volume is lost rapidly. (Hence the bashing) Bashing is corrected by adding fresh smalls. Can't wait to see your end product! Grit is used up in hours. Cool project, anxious to see results. Results fail High rpm causes too rapid volume loss. Need to add stones every day. Failure to do so, results in bruised beauties. Installing. A 1046 RPM motor to drop rpm to 40 ish
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 3, 2017 10:43:12 GMT -5
Grit is used up in hours. Cool project, anxious to see results. Results fail High rpm causes too rapid volume loss. Need to add stones every day. Failure to do so, results in bruised beauties. Installing. A 1046 RPM motor to drop rpm to 40 ish Even with 80% fill of 1 inch rocks at a slow 18 RPM those big bone crushers still apply exponential increase of grind force. It's a whole new game. Rabbit and the hare. Pretty simple formula, tumble BB size rocks and run a year to round them. The grit may take 6 months to break down if at all. Add a bone crusher and you will have spent grit faster than you want to add it. But fast grind times. Telling that the grinding is done by the weight on the top of the avalanche with in. Looking forward to cranking the rotaries up again and doing some biggies. The first half of the song is rolling small rocks, the last half is big rocks.
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 3, 2017 11:25:04 GMT -5
Results fail High rpm causes too rapid volume loss. Need to add stones every day. Failure to do so, results in bruised beauties. Installing. A 1046 RPM motor to drop rpm to 40 ish Even with 80% fill of 1 inch rocks at a slow 18 RPM those big bone crushers still apply exponential increase of grind force. It's a whole new game. Rabbit and the hare. Pretty simple formula, tumble BB size rocks and run a year to round them. The grit may take 6 months to break down if at all. Add a bone crusher and you will have spent grit faster than you want to add it. But fast grind times. Telling that the grinding is done by the weight on the top of the avalanche with in. Looking forward to cranking the rotaries up again and doing some biggies. The first half of the song is rolling small rocks, the last half is big rocks. Would your colloidal clay (or kitty litter) work well in this situation, James to carry the grit and more lubrication and less bashing? Big ole Thors hammer !!
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Jun 3, 2017 11:30:07 GMT -5
Do you tumble rocks Cliff? I see you stocking up on rough, but don't recall reading about what you do with rocks or seeing any kinda rock shop. Probably missed it.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 3, 2017 13:05:09 GMT -5
Even with 80% fill of 1 inch rocks at a slow 18 RPM those big bone crushers still apply exponential increase of grind force. It's a whole new game. Rabbit and the hare. Pretty simple formula, tumble BB size rocks and run a year to round them. The grit may take 6 months to break down if at all. Add a bone crusher and you will have spent grit faster than you want to add it. But fast grind times. Telling that the grinding is done by the weight on the top of the avalanche with in. Looking forward to cranking the rotaries up again and doing some biggies. The first half of the song is rolling small rocks, the last half is big rocks. Would your colloidal clay (or kitty litter) work well in this situation, James to carry the grit and more lubrication and less bashing? Big ole Thors hammer !! Yes. The clay for the coarse grind. Probably don't need it too much, slurry can be created quick with the big Thor. Just use the natural slurry. Pour some off when it gets too thick, then add water. i'm not much for clean outs unless refreshing clay every week when adding grit daily w/big rock on a fast grind routine at higher speed. At 30 RPM(higher speed) the grit is gone in hours w/big rock. The 30 RPM thing takes daily additions of grit, keeps you busy. You can add grit every 2-3 days if you want, but your rolling 1-2 days for nothing, the grit is gone those days after 24 hours. You can get by with 80% fill with those big rocks. Never run two big rocks at a time. Two two pounders reap havoc with bruises. Beat each other, lest you have the slurry very correct. Very. I cheat and polish in the Vibrasonic. Also one rock at a time unless I use dividers. Two bigs in the vibe is recipe for frosting also.
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 3, 2017 14:07:09 GMT -5
Would your colloidal clay (or kitty litter) work well in this situation, James to carry the grit and more lubrication and less bashing? Big ole Thors hammer !! Yes. The clay for the coarse grind. Probably don't need it too much, slurry can be created quick with the big Thor. Just use the natural slurry. Pour some off when it gets too thick, then add water. i'm not much for clean outs unless refreshing clay every week when adding grit daily w/big rock on a fast grind routine at higher speed. At 30 RPM(higher speed) the grit is gone in hours w/big rock. The 30 RPM thing takes daily additions of grit, keeps you busy. You can add grit every 2-3 days if you want, but your rolling 1-2 days for nothing, the grit is gone those days after 24 hours. You can get by with 80% fill with those big rocks. Never run two big rocks at a time. Two two pounders reap havoc with bruises. Beat each other, lest you have the slurry very correct. Very. I cheat and polish in the Vibrasonic. Also one rock at a time unless I use dividers. Two bigs in the vibe is recipe for frosting also. JAmes I cheat and polish in the Vibrasonic. Also one rock at a time unless I use dividers.
What you put in with the big guy to polish it? Smalls, medium, large ceramic?
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 3, 2017 16:32:39 GMT -5
Smalls. 1/2 to 1" mixed shapes coloradocliff. See for yourself, note divider to keep two big rocks from colliding and making bruises. Perfect for polishing the bigguns. AO 80 step, then AO 14,000 polish.
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 3, 2017 17:03:40 GMT -5
Smalls. 1/2 to 1" mixed shapes coloradocliff . See for yourself, note divider to keep two big rocks from colliding and making bruises. Perfect for polishing the bigguns. AO 80 step, then AO 14,000 polish. Pretty cool Jim.. Checked out some of the other stuff you have up. Don't you ever sleep? Thanks a 1000 words.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 4, 2017 3:47:05 GMT -5
coloradocliff If you sit for 20 minutes at the diamond cup grinder, you can shape your big rock just the way you want it. Next step is to roll it in coarse SiC to ONLY get the diamond cup scratches out of it. Not shaping, just a surface removal. Often only takes 7 days, but adding SiC for 5 of the days. Then I transfer it to the Vibrasonic for 2 days in AO 80, then 18 hours in AO 14,000. Presto, 10-12 day big rock done. Fastest tumble. Then use the same smalls for the next big rock, adding some or subtracting depending on size of next big rock. Eventually the smalls will be done. Shaping the big rock with the diamond cup is the key. Time spent is less than an 8 to 12 week tumble by a long shot.
|
|