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Post by grumpybill on Dec 20, 2017 12:06:06 GMT -5
I've finally moved enough stones out of the rotaries to start my first batch of 120/220 in the Lot-O.
So...when this stage is done, do I just rinse the stones well in the barrel (after adding some water and Borax during the last 15 minutes or so)? Or should I also fill the barrel with stones, water and Borax and run it for a while before moving to the next stage?
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Post by pauls on Dec 20, 2017 14:55:28 GMT -5
I do both.
Add water (not borax) to make the slurry runnier, run for a few minutes to mix it well.
Dump the lot in a seive or collander and hose clean, scrub inside the barrel with a dish brush, then back in the barrel with water and borax and run for 15 minutes or so. rinse again.
Easy to do if you have good clean stones with no pits or cracks, if any pits or cracks run the cleaning stage a bit longer or remove the cracked ones.
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Win
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2017
Posts: 337
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Post by Win on Dec 20, 2017 15:32:22 GMT -5
I've just been adding a bit of Dawn and little water and running it for about 15 minutes. I dump into a colander and hose down, then handle each rock using my fingers to scrub. I'm going to add a bottle brush to my kit, sounds like a good idea to scrub the barrel. I don't rerun the rocks, just after the last stage with some Ivory soap.
I think you're going to love the results from the Lot O!!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2017 5:50:39 GMT -5
I have never paid too much attention to cleanliness. I do wet rag my hopper out well and rinse it. Wash stones in a colander but not excessively. Mind you I do not have a Lot-O but that should not make much difference. I no longer put SiC in my vibe, only aluminum oxides. AO 220-500-14,000. Rare occasion AO 1000. I do have problems with 'tarnish' or hard water stains or Borax coatings. Not sure which it is. Even back when I used SiC 120/220. I use Rock Shed polish like most everyone else. Like glass that comes out of a dish washer. Likely hard water. I have 6.7 ph water, slightly acidic. Not sure about the ph after the run. Well water from granite. Even rain water has this problem. My car windows get the same residue. Wicked difficult to get rid of. May try (super fine)4X pumice rub down. Like such:
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Post by Garage Rocker on Dec 21, 2017 6:01:23 GMT -5
I have never paid too much attention to cleanliness. I do wet rag my hopper out well and rinse it. Wash stones in a colander but not excessively. Mind you I do not have a Lot-O but that should not make much difference. I no longer put SiC in my vibe, only aluminum oxides. AO 220-500-14,000. Rare occasion AO 1000. I do pretty much the same, James. Never been that concerned about contamination. Like Pauls said, if your stones are free of cracks and defects, there aren't many places for grit to hide. I do a couple drops of Dawn at the end of the run, dump and rinse in a colander (the same colander for all stages), rinse the Lot O barrel and reload. Any rocks with vugs do get a toothbrush treatment, but other than that I'm not that fastidious. Never had a problem. I do use a separate barrel for polish. Need to get me some AO 220. I don't like how Sic dries out and turns to mud. I think I'm the odd one out, I have always used TXP polish from rocktumbler.com
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2017 6:16:27 GMT -5
I have never paid too much attention to cleanliness. I do wet rag my hopper out well and rinse it. Wash stones in a colander but not excessively. Mind you I do not have a Lot-O but that should not make much difference. I no longer put SiC in my vibe, only aluminum oxides. AO 220-500-14,000. Rare occasion AO 1000. I do pretty much the same, James. Never been that concerned about contamination. Like Pauls said, if your stones are free of cracks and defects, there aren't many places for grit to hide. I do a couple drops of Dawn at the end of the run, dump and rinse in a colander (the same colander for all stages), rinse the Lot O barrel and reload. Any rocks with vugs do get a toothbrush treatment, but other than that I'm not that fastidious. Never had a problem. I do use a separate barrel for polish. Need to get me some AO 220. I don't like how Sic dries out and turns to mud. Interesting. Well, I never even had a separate hopper so a real slacker. Since I get a decent polish out of AO 220 alone and it removes the scars from the rotary completely I am happy. If your vibe is not removing the scars from the rotary then the SiC 220 makes perfect sense. But that SiC is not about polishing. It is a cut and slash abrasive. Mighty harsh. The AO 220 skins off plenty of rock though, slurry development will tell you that. Allows starting off quite wet. 48 hours later w/no water additions and slurry is mighty fine. Rocks shinning. When adding the AO 14,0000 the polish is reduced after a few hours and then comes back as the 14,000 breaks down to 20,000-30,000 etc. Telling that the AO 220 had broken down beyond 14,000. ETA TXP is simply AO 8000. I have Kramer AO 5000. I can not tell one bit of difference between the 5000 and the 14,000. 5000 = 5 microns 8000 = 3 microns 14,000 = 1 micron They all break down to 20,000 - 30,000 - 40,000 etc in short order. We are getting 50,000 to 100,000 polishes. Excellent. Gets no better.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 21, 2017 6:46:19 GMT -5
I’m somewhere in the middle of the above group. I put some dish soap in at the end of the run with about a quarter cup of water. Let that run for ten minutes or so to loosen everything up. Rinse in a colander and then back in the barrel with either a tablespoon of borax or a squirt of Dawn. Run for about an hour, then rinse in a colander again and go to the next step. I’ve never scrubbed individual rocks, unless they have an obvious hole, nor have I ever scrubbed the inside of the barrel. I have a separate polish barrel.
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Post by grumpybill on Dec 21, 2017 7:17:50 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone. The reason I asked is that, even after a very good rinse and clean, when I run a +/- 30 minute "cleaning" in a rotary barrel, the water gets dirty looking.
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 21, 2017 7:50:40 GMT -5
I use a rotary for all stages except polish in the Vib. I wash with Ivory bar soap flakes and Borax after pre-polish in Rotary and after Polish in Vib. I read somewhere years ago that Ivory soap was the best to use as some of the other soaps have chemicals that can start to affect the Rubber Liner in the Rotary. Can't find the source of that info so maybe it's best classified as Urban Legend. The pre-polish rinse water after running 4 or 5 hours is pretty gray even after a real good rinse in the colander before hand. I have been tumbling more rocks that end up braking into an internal cavity and becomes a grit trap. Try to wash those by hand with spray from the hose. The Round Mountain Chalcedony have a lot of these.
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Post by melhill1659 on Dec 21, 2017 8:02:29 GMT -5
I have never paid too much attention to cleanliness. I do wet rag my hopper out well and rinse it. Wash stones in a colander but not excessively. Mind you I do not have a Lot-O but that should not make much difference. I no longer put SiC in my vibe, only aluminum oxides. AO 220-500-14,000. Rare occasion AO 1000. I do have problems with 'tarnish' or hard water stains or Borax coatings. Not sure which it is. Even back when I used SiC 120/220. I use Rock Shed polish like most everyone else. Like glass that comes out of a dish washer. Likely hard water. I have 6.7 ph water, slightly acidic. Not sure about the ph after the run. Well water from granite. Even rain water has this problem. My car windows get the same residue. Wicked difficult to get rid of. May try (super fine)4X pumice rub down. Like such: Ummmm maybe because You are like me Jim and suuuum times forget about the barrels until it turns into a goopy concrete 😂😂😂 Miss You Guys!!!
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Post by grumpybill on Dec 21, 2017 8:38:20 GMT -5
There are a few guys on the RTH Facebook page who insist that Dawn deteriorates rubber barrels and causes black sludge that's hard to remove from stones. Has anyone had a similar experience? I haven't.
Should mention that the RTH FB people also claim that I should be getting metallic marks on my stones from using SS bowls and strainers when I rinse and sort.
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 21, 2017 8:59:15 GMT -5
My guess is that the stainless maybe leaving metallic marks on particular type stones or the stainless they are using is extreme low quality. I have a nice big stainless strainer I have used for 2 years and never had any issues that I have noticed.
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Post by grumpybill on Dec 21, 2017 10:08:58 GMT -5
If your vibe is not removing the scars from the rotary then the SiC 220 makes perfect sense. But that SiC is not about polishing. It is a cut and slash abrasive. Mighty harsh. Yep. I started SiC 120/220 just before noon yesterday. By hour 18 the level of stones in the bowl had dropped by about an inch. I added a handful of previously rotary-polished stones to bring the level back up.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 21, 2017 14:57:58 GMT -5
There are a few guys on the RTH Facebook page who insist that Dawn deteriorates rubber barrels and causes black sludge that's hard to remove from stones. Has anyone had a similar experience? I haven't. Should mention that the RTH FB people also claim that I should be getting metallic marks on my stones from using SS bowls and strainers when I rinse and sort. I had this experience with Dreft in Lortone rotary barrels. I haven’t had it in the Lot-O with Dreft. I have since switched to borax with no problems.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 21, 2017 16:02:53 GMT -5
My car windows get the same residue. Wicked difficult to get rid of. May try (super fine)4X pumice rub down. Like such: Pretty much just thought of the deposits on glass as being from hard water, didn't really give it a thought as to being acid or alkali. 6.7 is not that acidic, is it? Here, we are the other way, very alkaline. James, do you not use Jet-Dry® at the end of the dishwasher cycle? Supposed to help your glassware dry spotless! (I have no first hand knowledge of this, only what the ads/commercials say. I do not have a "dishwasher" only the two hands at the ends of my arms.)
Just reading the ads, looks like you put it into the dishwasher before you even start- •Simply fill your rinse aid dispenser with FINISH® JET-DRY® Turbo Dry and it will be automatically released in the rinse cycle every time your dishwasher runs to give you dry dishes.
We go through a bit of it as we pour a couple drops into the water basin we gold pan in before starting. Breaks the surface tension, and keeps tiny gold particles from floating.
Walmart sells it pretty inexpensively. The last stuff I bought was a BOGO free 2 two-packs for a super cheap price. But that was some time ago.
Anyone here ever use it? Does it work? Care to comment?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2017 6:31:00 GMT -5
If your vibe is not removing the scars from the rotary then the SiC 220 makes perfect sense. But that SiC is not about polishing. It is a cut and slash abrasive. Mighty harsh. Yep. I started SiC 120/220 just before noon yesterday. By hour 18 the level of stones in the bowl had dropped by about an inch. I added a handful of previously rotary-polished stones to bring the level back up. If running say 60% glass media instead of 60% ceramic media using SiC 220(to a lesser degree AO 220) your slurry will increase quickly and the level will drop quickly. Lots of slurry since glass is way softer than ceramic media. And the SiC 220(to a lesser degree AO 220) will break down slower because the glass is softer. Which multiplies slurry production longer. Or if running soft rocks, say 50% obsidian or fluorite same scenario. Take it to the extreme, if you are running 100% soapstone the 220 would take forever to break down. You would simply be making soapstone soup and have some very long lasting 220. The level will drop and the slurry would quickly turn thick in a couple of hours many times with the same 220. Finishing rocks is micro-surface grinding. For hard rocks and hard media a level drop of 1 inch is a lot, more like a finer coarse grind. That is why I go straight from rotary to AO 220 in vibe. It focuses directly on laying a micro finish. Let your rotary run a few days extra with the last charge of SiC 30-46-60 and it will break down past 500. The gentler AO 220 in the vibe will easily take you into polish mode with minimal removal.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2017 6:40:41 GMT -5
I got to try some dishwasher spot remover rockpickerforever at final burnish to see if it will remove hard water stains. Yes, 6.7 is only slightly acidic. Whatever is in this Georgia water really leaves hard water marks. On another note, in central Florida area a leaking tap running down a Kohler ceramic kitchen sink will cut a groove in the ceramic in a few years. Talk about hard water....
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2017 7:01:12 GMT -5
There are a few guys on the RTH Facebook page who insist that Dawn deteriorates rubber barrels and causes black sludge that's hard to remove from stones. Has anyone had a similar experience? I haven't. Should mention that the RTH FB people also claim that I should be getting metallic marks on my stones from using SS bowls and strainers when I rinse and sort. Rubber is petroleum based. Dawn is made to attack oils. Interesting. Makes perfect sense. Certain rubbers are the finest of all materials for a rotary barrel. Highest in abrasion resistance and QUIET. I tried to kill a Lortone 12 pound for years running SiC 8 and 16. Not happening, Lortone dialed in those barrels. They are thin, lightweight, quiet, and last forever. Any rubber barrel is a winner. Example - Here in the land of granite tombstone manufacture(Georgia leads the world) a thin liquid rubber coating is painted on the face of the granite. Then they razor the epithet into the rubber and peel of the the letters/numbers to be sand blasted into the granite. The sand blasts deep into the granite. The thin layer of rubber is untouched by the extreme abrasive attack leaving the epithet. Rubber is bad to the bone when it comes to abrasion resistance. ETA If you want to find out if a metallic strainer is going to leave metallic streaks on your rocks simply take a tumbled agate and rub it against the strainer. You will get a quick answer. Aluminum strainers will leave streaks 100%. Stainless varies in hardness, may or may not. Food grade stainless is soft and about always streaks your rocks. Probably depends on the (soft)nickel content of the stainless. Clean out strainers after final polish - I suggest plastic. Better safe than sorry.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2017 7:06:26 GMT -5
You don't need to miss us guys melhill1659, spread your wings and pay us a visit once in a while. You uppity intarsians are a sub category of the R(Tumbling)H. The tumblers of this world rule the RTH. Most of us don't get paid to look good though. But we do try harder.
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Post by melhill1659 on Dec 22, 2017 7:29:30 GMT -5
You don't need to miss us guys melhill1659, spread your wings and pay us a visit once in a while. You uppity intarsians are a sub category of the R(Tumbling)H. The tumblers of this world rule the RTH. Most of us don't get paid to look good though. But we do try harder. I’ll be coming through again before you know it. WH will be starting back up in April. First I have to get through the holidays. My moms off all next week. She an I will be revamping my camper. Sewing box cushions and curtains. Then off to Quartzite with my sister! I’ve managed to bow my Tumbler B 15 pounder 😂 I’ll need to add braces and square it up again before it can be used. I swear I’m going to build my own heavy duty tumbler barrel rollers/machine one day! Of course I even have very high hopes to start creating jewelry again. Wow where does the time go?
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