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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 12:04:54 GMT -5
This would run alongside the current one. Dr DG proposed a winner take all cab contest. It would run quarterly. Everyone sends their cabs to Tommy , he sends them to me for judging. (I won't see who cut what.) I judge based on specific criteria - to be determined - and the winner gets all the cabs entered. I will not be entering. Poll- would you be interested in something like this? Add your comments here. Poll runs until 2-3-18
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Post by captbob on Jan 26, 2018 12:48:14 GMT -5
I would like to see such a contest, but you are taking all the fun out of it (except for the winner) by not letting us all vote on the winner. Participants send cabs to Tommy or you and whoever posts the photos here with no names. We all get to vote.
Maybe you and Tommy switch hosting the contest every other turn so that ya'll can enter as well.
The method proposed in the poll doesn't involve me, so why should I care?
I'm not playing, so do as the cabbing folks decide.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 12:57:48 GMT -5
I would like to see such a contest, but you are taking all the fun out of it (except for the winner) by not letting us all vote on the winner. Participants send cabs to Tommy or you and whoever posts the photos here with no names. We all get to vote. Maybe you and Tommy switch hosting the contest every other turn so that ya'll can enter as well. The method proposed in the poll doesn't involve me, so why should I care? I'm not playing, so do as the cabbing folks decide. You bring up a good point. It would be nice to get the board involved. Good suggestion. None of this is written in stone, so thanks for the input. We'll work something out.
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Post by captbob on Jan 26, 2018 13:08:45 GMT -5
NOT saying that you or Tommy wouldn't be better qualified to judge than this motley crew as a whole. Probably easier to judge actual quality of the work when holding a cab and seeing it in person. Pictures can leave so much out and we all know it's tough to judge any rock just with a picture. I sure wouldn't want to have to take the pictures!!
Send 'em to one of our ace photographers for that part. Maybe a good compromise would be a 50/50 judging. (60/40?) (whatever) The group vote counts for 50% of the grade and the "official" judge vote counts for 50%. I don't know quite how all that complicated math would work, but I'm sure ya'll will figure something out! Either way, I'll watch the game.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 13:15:30 GMT -5
NOT saying that you or Tommy wouldn't be better qualified to judge than this motley crew as a whole. Probably easier to judge actual quality of the work when holding a cab and seeing it in person. Pictures can leave so much out and we all know it's tough to judge any rock just with a picture. I sure wouldn't want to have to take the pictures!!
Send 'em to one of our ace photographers for that part. Maybe a good compromise would be a 50/50 judging. (60/40?) (whatever) The group vote counts for 50% of the grade and the "official" judge vote counts for 50%. I don't know quite how all that complicated math would work, but I'm sure ya'll will figure something out! Either way, I'll watch the game. I was thinking along those lines myself. Let's see what the interest is and work on it from there. Anyone else have some input?
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,936
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Post by Tommy on Jan 26, 2018 13:29:09 GMT -5
That's a pretty good idea captbob - maybe if Tela or I judged the technical aspects based on a written criteria then the overall cosmetic beauty side is judged on the board based on photos by a neutral photographer. I could do the photos before sending them on to Tela. Edited to add the photos thought.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 13:38:19 GMT -5
Yup, sounds good to me!
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,041
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 26, 2018 13:46:40 GMT -5
I voted "Maybe." I want to see the specific criteria as well as a resolution of the judging aspect before making a final decision. Frankly I'm not too excited about the idea.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 13:50:40 GMT -5
I voted "Maybe." I want to see the specific criteria as well as a resolution of the judging aspect before making a final decision. Frankly I'm not too excited about the idea. What kind of criteria would you like to see?
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jan 26, 2018 14:40:36 GMT -5
I'd be interested in WATCHING a winner take all cab contest.
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Post by captbob on Jan 26, 2018 14:47:22 GMT -5
I'd be interested in WATCHING TAKING THE PHOTOS FOR a winner take all cab contest. fixed it for ya!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 14:49:10 GMT -5
I'd be interested in WATCHING TAKING THE PHOTOS FOR a winner take all cab contest. fixed it for ya! LOL!!! Subtle much?
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,041
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 26, 2018 14:49:55 GMT -5
I voted "Maybe." I want to see the specific criteria as well as a resolution of the judging aspect before making a final decision. Frankly I'm not too excited about the idea. What kind of criteria would you like to see? That's the sticking point with me. A cab first has to be pretty and desirable. Second it has to be well cut for the purpose it's intended for. Those are very subjective elements that elicit different responses from different people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the hackneyed but true saying goes. Technically a wire wrapper may have concerns very different from a silversmith when it comes to girdling etc. A person who casts jewelry may cut stones very differently than a silversmith. For instance I cut lots of my fire agates with reversed girdles so they can be inset into cast rings or pendants with only the face showing. I'm certainly not going to waste my time fiddling with calipers to make sure I cut stones to perfect calibration. First, it's boring and I much prefer free-form cutting to show a material's patterns and structure. Second, it's largely pointless from a practical standpoint because "calibrated" settings often vary by at least a mm. or so. If necessary I cut stones to fit the setting. If this sounds negative I'm sorry. I just don't think it's possible to develop criteria to cover all technical concerns, not to mention the subjectivity of defining "beauty."
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 15:15:27 GMT -5
I understand your concerns. Valid points. First, I assure you that, as a wire wrapper, I can be unbiased. I've evaluated cabs for my own silver settings. Granted, not a lot, but I have a good range in mind for a cab's girdle (or not) that can be both for wire wrapping and for setting. The goal would be to shoot for the criteria, not for a finishing preference.
I wasn't going to get as specific as the angle of the girdle. However for purposes of the criteria, you probably wouldn't not want to enter a reverse girdle, simply because it is not within the realm of an average cab. I was thinking to judge the evenness of the dome, the evenness of the height of the girdle, the final polish, etc. I was thinking to require a back polish and allow no doublets or triplets. Those could be for another round, maybe. Shape, at this point, not limited, size not limited. Any material you please. However, you will be judged by the overall cab considering the difficulty of the material. In other words- If you turned in a perfectly polished jade, it would more impressive than a jasper. Don't turn in a funky, difficult shape if it's not finished perfectly, too. Shape could be judged as it pertains to the material. So, you would want to be working with the stone. You could use a template, but the template shape should compliment the material. I suppose you would need to add a picture of the slab. This could be sent to Tommy and passed to me- assuming it would be me. I wouldn't give credit for the material itself. BUT, a minimum value should be decided. We can't have one person enter a 20.00 cab alongside 50.00 dollar cabs. So, use some good stuff. Yes, that is subjective. Sorry. But, I do have an idea, or I can find out, what the appox value would be.
Anyway- that's my line of thinking, at his point. I am open to suggestions and discussion.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jan 26, 2018 15:16:33 GMT -5
I'd be interested in WATCHING TAKING THE PHOTOS FOR a winner take all cab contest. fixed it for ya! Haha! I'd be glad to be of service, but the postage bill is starting to add up on these travelling cabs.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 26, 2018 15:17:31 GMT -5
Meant to add. I, personally, won't be judging the overall "beauty" of the cab. That, as I am reading it, will be up to vote on the board.
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Post by captbob on Jan 26, 2018 16:58:02 GMT -5
Haha! I'd be glad to be of service, but the postage bill is starting to add up on these traveling cabs. All the cabs, there can't be that many, would fit in a small flat rate box. Thinking it's the responsibility of the creators to mail their cab to Tommy, or where ever they go first. Maybe, if you really want to do the photos, they can be mailed to you? Photographer mails them to the judge. First person receiving them has to keep the secret of what cab is from whom. After they all come in, they all ship together. What does a small flat rate box cost to mail - like 7 bucks? Extra for insurance? Funds for mailing could come out of the forum funds. God knows that with these RTH benefit auctions going on all the time that excess funds exist. Each contest would cost like 15 (20 w/ extra insurance) bucks to do the mailing once the cabs are all mailed in. Do maybe 4 contests a year = the winning bid of an RTH benefit auction or two. just sayin'
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spiritstone
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2014
Posts: 2,061
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Post by spiritstone on Jan 26, 2018 21:19:51 GMT -5
Gemfeller has a lot of the same issues I have.
A cab first has to be pretty and desirable.
Second it has to be well cut for the purpose it's intended for. Those are very subjective elements that elicit different responses from different people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the hackneyed but true saying goes.
I'm certainly not going to waste my time fiddling with calipers to make sure I cut stones to perfect calibration.
Another point for me is I wouldnt be sending off a highly desired stone after putting that much work into it with the chance of losing it due to a technicality like a less attractive shine. Some stones are like that and dont take a high shine. I dont know...?
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 26, 2018 23:17:51 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 27, 2018 9:33:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the input and thanks Rockoonz for the links. The point to a contest is to win following the rules. If the rules ask for a cabochon with specific characteristics, one would think that that is what you want want to submit- save the unusual ones for yourself. I'm not suggesting that I get out the calipers for this, but the girdle and height should fall into a "normal" range. You don't even need a girdle if you are doing a high dome cab, which is called for and certainly appropriate for some materials. I'm not an expert, but I do know a lot. I do know that some material is harder to finish than others. If someone turned out a gorgeous, perfect Indian Paintstone- of course, they won't get gigged for having a matte finish. I think I am capable of using some common sense and of asking questions where needed. I'm going to look over the list Rockoonz linked to. I'll be thinking hard about criteria. I'm sure whatever we, I, come up with will be doable. As of now, there isn't a lot of interest, so this all be moot. We'll see how the poll turns out.
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