nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 11, 2018 17:26:57 GMT -5
Good evening from N.C. I've got a crazy question for you resourceful folks out there. Does anyone have any ideas or procedures for breaking up large rock into tumbler sized rough? I find quite a few rock shops online that offer really interesting rocks, but a lot of said rock is WAY too big for my tumbler. I don't go through a ton of rock yearly, so I don't really want to spend a fortune. I'm kinda handy around a garage, and can weld, so I'm trying to come up with some ideas for something home-made. Open to suggestions.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Mar 11, 2018 17:45:34 GMT -5
Good evening from N.C. I've got a crazy question for you resourceful folks out there. Does anyone have any ideas or procedures for breaking up large rock into tumbler sized rough? I find quite a few rock shops online that offer really interesting rocks, but a lot of said rock is WAY too big for my tumbler. I don't go through a ton of rock yearly, so I don't really want to spend a fortune. I'm kinda handy around a garage, and can weld, so I'm trying to come up with some ideas for something home-made. Open to suggestions. I was convinced, by members here, to think about a wet trim saw (tile saw).......been bustin rocks to large to tumble for way-to-long......So I "purchased a small 7" saw.........maybe one could convert an old table saw or radial arm saw to function the same with a diamond blade and cooling system arrangement......?.......... I did not have a table saw I was willing to convert....!
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Post by pauls on Mar 11, 2018 18:00:43 GMT -5
Build yourself a mini hydraulic press from a cheapy or scrounged hydraulic jack, a cold chisel attached to the press to do the business to the rock and your'e good to go.
I prefer a saw myself, chop your rock into 1/2 inch thick slabs then break on any existing cracks. This way you get a lot less waste, especially useful for your better pieces.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
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Post by NRG on Mar 11, 2018 18:02:35 GMT -5
A member here takes a palm nailer, puts a chisel bit into it and chisels boulder to bits
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 11, 2018 18:23:54 GMT -5
Good evening from N.C. I've got a crazy question for you resourceful folks out there. Does anyone have any ideas or procedures for breaking up large rock into tumbler sized rough? I find quite a few rock shops online that offer really interesting rocks, but a lot of said rock is WAY too big for my tumbler. I don't go through a ton of rock yearly, so I don't really want to spend a fortune. I'm kinda handy around a garage, and can weld, so I'm trying to come up with some ideas for something home-made. Open to suggestions. I was convinced, by members here, to think about a wet trim saw (tile saw).......been bustin rocks to large to tumble for way-to-long......So I "purchased a small 7" saw.........maybe one could convert an old table saw or radial arm saw to function the same with a diamond blade and cooling system arrangement......?.......... I did not have a table saw I was willing to convert....! That's not a bad idea. It's a different direction than what I had in mind, but I think that might be a better way to go. I have seen those advertised at harbor freight for a decent price. would probably work real well for my application. Thanks.
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Post by grumpybill on Mar 11, 2018 18:40:35 GMT -5
If the stone is too big for your tile saw, cut a shallow notch. Then wedge it apart with a chisel that's thicker than the notch and a couple taps with a mash hammer. If the notch isn't deep enough or the chisel is too thin, the chisel will bottom out and not act as a wedge.
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 11, 2018 18:57:06 GMT -5
If the stone is too big for your tile saw, cut a shallow notch. Then wedge it apart with a chisel that's thicker than the notch and a couple taps with a mash hammer. If the notch isn't deep enough or the chisel is too thin, the chisel will bottom out and not act as a wedge. That is an excellent idea. I think that's the route I'm going to take, at least for now. I just don't want anymore waste than necessary.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 11, 2018 19:03:10 GMT -5
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Post by grumpybill on Mar 11, 2018 19:28:34 GMT -5
Bashing stones with a hammer...or even a chisel...results in too many fracture lines and small pieces for my taste. That's why I stopped buying "tumbling rough" and started making my own out of larger stuff. The wedge method is more time consuming than bashing, but in my (not so) humble opinion is worth the time/effort. (I don't do huge quantities of tumbled stones.) Wedging also gives more random/natural shapes than sawing, if that's what I want.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Mar 11, 2018 20:17:19 GMT -5
Bashing stones with a hammer...or even a chisel...results in too many fracture lines and small pieces for my taste. That's why I stopped buying "tumbling rough" and started making my own out of larger stuff. The wedge method is more time consuming than bashing, but in my (not so) humble opinion is worth the time/effort. (I don't do huge quantities of tumbled stones.) Wedging also gives more random/natural shapes than sawing, if that's what I want. I agree totally with the wedge method......it is more time consuming but better results for "natural" shapes.....I still have not refined the "size" issue with wedges, working with 4" to 6" stones, I used to cut 1" notches around the stone with my Dremel, then start chisel wedging......I only tumble, so pieces for my set-up cannot exceed 2". Now with the saw, I can either cut deeper wedges or just slice the smaller stones up and tumble away without to much "volume" loss.
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Post by rmf on Mar 11, 2018 20:23:04 GMT -5
nchillbilly I have a rock crusher in Chattanooga TN. You would need to let me know ahead of time since I work a regular job.
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 11, 2018 20:40:59 GMT -5
nchillbilly I have a rock crusher in Chattanooga TN. You would need to let me know ahead of time since I work a regular job. Thank you so much! I certainly appreciate that. I hate to admit it, but most of my batches are so small I would be embarrassed to trouble anyone else with them. I have a bad habit of surfing the web for rock shops, and when I see something that catches my eye, I'll order a few pounds. Quite often, the only way I can get what I want, is to buy large rough. On a side note, I may be in eastern Tn. in about a month. Know of any good rock shops there?
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Post by grumpybill on Mar 11, 2018 21:20:49 GMT -5
I agree totally with the wedge method......it is more time consuming but better results for "natural" shapes.....I still have not refined the "size" issue with wedges, working with 4" to 6" stones, I used to cut 1" notches around the stone with my Dremel, then start chisel wedging......I only tumble, so pieces for my set-up cannot exceed 2". Now with the saw, I can either cut deeper wedges or just slice the smaller stones up and tumble away without to much "volume" loss. Yeah. If the notch isn't deep enough the chisel bottoms out and sometimes just knocks off little pieces. The pressure/force needs to be outwards from the notch, not downwards toward the bottom of it. There's no need to cut the notch the whole way around the stone. I've cut stones that were 16 - 24 inches thick and 4 - 6 feet long by sawing notches every 6 or 8 inches along the length, setting small blunt wedges, and tapping them in sequence with a 2 lb. hammer.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 11, 2018 23:46:28 GMT -5
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on Mar 12, 2018 13:47:10 GMT -5
There's lots of possibilities. Depends on what you want to spend and how big your rocks are.
Sawing is slow, messy, either wet or dusty, and noisy. A big-ass saw is very expensive, but you can always make a notch with a diamond blade in an angle grinder, if you really want to for some reason. I'll saw the odd agate in half, or special shapes once in a blue moon, but otherwise, sawing to tumble is madness. Good tumbling rock is hard. Hard rocks cut slowly. If you're paying twenty bucks a pound for rough, or are just filling a tow pound barrel, ok, sure, saw away, but otherwise, sheesh.
Pressure trimmers are awesome, but not great for stuff over maybe 4" or so. You can make them easily if you weld. Commercial units are hundreds but serious mineral folks love their trimmers. Try to find a used core splitter, they're built tough, and if the rock doesn't break from the screw pressure, you get to whale on it, fun stuff.
Really all you need for most rocks is a hammer as heavy as you can swing with one hand, a cold steel chisel, and something to pound on that won't break before the rock does. I have a monster vice with a flat little anvil area which works just great.
As for the claim that hammering makes waste, well, it's tumbling rough, not flawless Colombian emerald, who cares? I have no waste. All the wee chips are needed for smalls whilst tumbling - no need to buy ceramic tumbling media, ever.
Wear a heavy glove on your left hand, set the chisel, wrap it with an old t-shirt to catch the chips, and hammer away. It gets easier with experience, once you learn to recognize cracks and the grain of the rock. Wear eye protection, buy a good chisel with a plastic hand guard, and be aware that that you are exerting a great deal of force! If that rock can move, it is going to. Every rock dreams of one day being a fighter jet, they just love to fly. Don't expect to break rock without a bit of pain and occasional blood loss.
After rough hammering, I use carbide-tipped, spring-loaded tile nippers and my bomb-proof little one inch Zuber pressure trimmer to lose the cracks and knife-edges, pointy bits, holes, and other major flaws.
I process hundreds of pounds of tumbling rough this way. If there's a better way, I'd like to hear it.
Of course, breaking up big rocks is a slightly different story, but that's another lecture.
Happy hammering!
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 12, 2018 18:14:03 GMT -5
There's lots of possibilities. Depends on what you want to spend and how big your rocks are. Sawing is slow, messy, either wet or dusty, and noisy. A big-ass saw is very expensive, but you can always make a notch with a diamond blade in an angle grinder, if you really want to for some reason. I'll saw the odd agate in half, or special shapes once in a blue moon, but otherwise, sawing to tumble is madness. Good tumbling rock is hard. Hard rocks cut slowly. If you're paying twenty bucks a pound for rough, or are just filling a tow pound barrel, ok, sure, saw away, but otherwise, sheesh. Pressure trimmers are awesome, but not great for stuff over maybe 4" or so. You can make them easily if you weld. Commercial units are hundreds but serious mineral folks love their trimmers. Try to find a used core splitter, they're built tough, and if the rock doesn't break from the screw pressure, you get to whale on it, fun stuff. Really all you need for most rocks is a hammer as heavy as you can swing with one hand, a cold steel chisel, and something to pound on that won't break before the rock does. I have a monster vice with a flat little anvil area which works just great. As for the claim that hammering makes waste, well, it's tumbling rough, not flawless Colombian emerald, who cares? I have no waste. All the wee chips are needed for smalls whilst tumbling - no need to buy ceramic tumbling media, ever. Wear a heavy glove on your left hand, set the chisel, wrap it with an old t-shirt to catch the chips, and hammer away. It gets easier with experience, once you learn to recognize cracks and the grain of the rock. Wear eye protection, buy a good chisel with a plastic hand guard, and be aware that that you are exerting a great deal of force! If that rock can move, it is going to. Every rock dreams of one day being a fighter jet, they just love to fly. Don't expect to break rock without a bit of pain and occasional blood loss. After rough hammering, I use carbide-tipped, spring-loaded tile nippers and my bomb-proof little one inch Zuber pressure trimmer to lose the cracks and knife-edges, pointy bits, holes, and other major flaws. I process hundreds of pounds of tumbling rough this way. If there's a better way, I'd like to hear it. Of course, breaking up big rocks is a slightly different story, but that's another lecture. Happy hammering! Pretty much all of my rough grinding is done in 2 three pound barrels. I don't necessarily need extra work, but a lot of the most interesting rock I find is just too big for my barrels. Not to mention, a lot of the crushed rough I get from numerous suppliers are really fractured, which kinda mars an otherwise nice tumble. I don't really want to put a ton of money into a solution for my dilemma. This is just a hobby for me. I don't make jewelry or sell anything. It's all about personal pleasure, and shining up interesting rocks, plus my daughter thinks they"re "cool".
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Mar 12, 2018 19:02:39 GMT -5
I hear ya nc.....I'm not in any "production mode" either, nor do I sell or mass distribute my finished material. Gifts and exhibits are my end game.
I'm limited to 1 vibe tumbler with 3 separate bowls, two bench grinders (1 for grind, 1 for polish), 2-3lb dbl barrel rotary tumblers, a trim saw, Dremel, drill press and single jack beaters/chisels/assorted tungsten end drives. When hounding take along 2-5gal. buckets, one for tools/test kits and towels, 1 for stones......nothing bigger than a soft ball.........that's it...!
As you may have noticed, The RTH members here are more than likely 50% "for profit/break even" and 50% for hobby.....throw in a few science/tech folks.......so there will be many different approaches discussed and many different goals achieved........all of which we can learn from......that's why I joined.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 12, 2018 19:27:17 GMT -5
I hear ya nc.....I'm not in any "production mode" either, nor do I sell or mass distribute my finished material. Gifts and exhibits are my end game. I'm limited to 1 vibe tumbler with 3 separate bowls, two bench grinders (1 for grind, 1 for polish), 2-3lb dbl barrel rotary tumblers, a trim saw, Dremel, drill press and single jack beaters/chisels/assorted tungsten end drives. When hounding take along 2-5gal. buckets, one for tools/test kits and towels, 1 for stones......nothing bigger than a soft ball.........that's it...! As you may have noticed, The RTH members here are more than likely 50% "for profit/break even" and 50% for hobby.....throw in a few science/tech folks.......so there will be many different approaches discussed and many different goals achieved........all of which we can learn from......that's why I joined. Which RTH members are making a profit tumbling rocks or even breaking even for that matter? I am not sure I have ever heard that before. Selling is just a way to move some material and maybe pay for grit at best. Chuck
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Post by HankRocks on Mar 12, 2018 19:55:17 GMT -5
I have given up paying for the grit, now I just pay for the beer!!
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Mar 12, 2018 19:57:19 GMT -5
Just an educated observation Chuck......there are more than just "rock tumblers" here......selling or trade, (to the best of my knowledge), could be considered "for profit".......if currency or barter are involved, whether or not "a profit" occurs, the exchange constitutes more than a "hobby" level aspiration, where there is no assumption of "gain". Be it "gain' that is level or otherwise over the assumed value......I don't mean necessarily a "return on investment". However, if there is a return that exceeds the "assumed" value of the transaction, it is still considered a recognized "profit"....
We all know "value" has different meanings to different people, and I'm getting to deep into this.......sorry if I "fluffed" some feathers.....but there as many casual lapidarist here as there are those who (more seriously) sell, trade, advertise and exchange material.........which in my opinion, is a good thing...!
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