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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 29, 2018 16:14:09 GMT -5
I ordered the 50.00 bottle. I'm sure it will last forever. My first batch, I mixed 2g to .66g and I had plenty to throw away. Word of advice- before I forget- don't throw it out too soon. It doesn't set up quickly. You may find that your stone soaks in all you put on it. You may want to add more after it sits awhile. I remembered to take some pictures. But, I won't have the final results until it is set up in a week or so. First here is what I gathered to do the project. I don't have a vacuum pump. I used a brake bleeder and food saver top for a wide mouth canning jar. This will work for cab or preforms but not slabs. Looking into getting a cheap vacuum set up on amazon. In the meantime, I followed this instructable for the Alvin sealer. www.instructables.com/id/The-Alvin-Vacuum-Sealer/Not in the picture, alcohol for cleaning, gloves and some blue lintless papertowels cut in quarters. The best thing I could find to mix the hxtal in was the top of a medicine bottle. I have since ordered some little 1 oz cups. It was hard to see how well the parts were mixing with the lid.  Here are the test subjects. A beautiful Agua nueva that I overheated on the flat top 50k. I ruined a gorgeous cab! I've been waiting for the right time to try to fix it (for myself, not for sale). I had a nice little piece of bone that had a lot of little cracks and was pretty porous. They are sitting on sticks, waxpaper and a glazed tile for heating under a 60 watt bulb.  After the stones heated for about 45 minutes, I added the hxtal with a pipette. It really soaked into the bone, but not the agate. After they sat for about 15 minutes, I took the bone to the jar and got a pretty good vacuum on it.  When I released the pressure, I noticed there had been tiny bubbles on the top. So, it drew a pretty good vacuum.  Both the stones went back under the light. I cleaned up, then noticed that the bone needed more again. I had to dig the sealed hxtal mixture out of the trash! Doh! I put plenty on the bone this time. I'm not going to wipe it off. I'll grind it off.  I thought that the mixed hxtal would be thinner than it is. Everything I have read compared it to water, but that was not my experience. I'm sure I mixed it well enough, too. One really awesome thing to find out about it- It doesn't smell, at all. This is really important to me as I work in the kitchen. I'll update this when it's cured. I'm not holding my breath for the agate. It doesn't seem to be penetrating the crack. The gem bone, I think will turn out just fine. I probably wouldn't have cabbed it as it was. So, bottom line- it's easy to work with, not smelly, fairly thin and believe it or not - economical. I only used a small amount of what I mixed and wasted the rest. Lesson learned. |
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mossyrockhound
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2011
Posts: 1,315
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Post by mossyrockhound on Sept 30, 2018 21:35:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the show and tell, Tela! It will be interesting to see how your cabs turn out. Did you have any trouble getting your vacuume device to work? BTW, that aqua neuva cab is sweet.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 1, 2018 5:07:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the show and tell, Tela! It will be interesting to see how your cabs turn out. Did you have any trouble getting your vacuume device to work? BTW, that aqua neuva cab is sweet. No, I didn't have any trouble. I can't get up to an absolute vacuum, but high enough. |
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Post by bobby1 on Oct 2, 2018 11:45:21 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that if the stone and sealing mixture is hot a higher vacuum will boil the sealer evidenced by small bubbles forming in the sealer. It gives the appearance of bubbles coming from inside the stone.
Bob
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 2, 2018 11:52:55 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that if the stone and sealing mixture is hot a higher vacuum will boil the sealer evidenced by small bubbles forming in the sealer. It gives the appearance of bubbles coming from inside the stone. Bob Very good to know! Thank you.  I didn't think about that. I don't think my stone this time was too hot, but I will definitely keep that in mind. |
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Oct 2, 2018 12:09:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the report Tela! As you know I bought some Hxtal also wanting to save a dino bone piece. Unfortunately my male brain turned it into a "lets build a badass vacuum chamber" project and now at this point after my chamber has failed spectacularly three times I've spent more money than I would have if I had just bought a stupid chamber on Ebay. Typical me project.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 2, 2018 14:36:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the report Tela! As you know I bought some Hxtal also wanting to save a dino bone piece. Unfortunately my male brain turned it into a "lets build a badass vacuum chamber" project and now at this point after my chamber has failed spectacularly three times I've spent more money than I would have if I had just bought a stupid chamber on Ebay. Typical me project.
I can certainly sympathize with you, Tommy, about letting projects get out of control. Bob picked up a hydraulic ram about ten years ago, and some hydraulic fluid. Gonna build hisself a log splitter. Just needs to get an I-beam, a gas motor, pump, hoses, fittings, etc, etc. He priced out the steel at around $100. I asked him if he had a "plan." His reply - It's not that hard.
Then I asked him if it wouldn't be cheaper, not to mention much quicker, to just buy one already made? So I pulled the trigger on it, and we bought a new 30 ton splitter at Lowes, on sale, assembled and ready to hook to the truck and take it home. Picked it up Sunday morning, split the wood already piled in the yard, picked up a butt load more of it close by and split that too. Building it himself, he might have been able to have a working facsimile of a log splitter working by next year sometime. I'm pretty damn sure it ended up being considerably cheaper (not to mention much cleaner and not having to run all over picking up parts), than him making his own.
Dirty Hand Tools 30-Ton Gas Log Splitter I whole heartedly recommend this machine, and also the people at Lowes. We are very happy with it.
While I understand the male brain, there is absolutely nothing that I can do to change it, lol. Just have to be the voice of reason, and know the work-arounds.
(Tela, I hope you don't mind the thread derailment, I just so identified with Tommy getting carried away and making a deluxe vacuum chamber. Sorry for the commercial.)
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zekesman
Cave Dweller 
Member since May 2016
Posts: 637 
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Post by zekesman on Oct 2, 2018 15:00:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the report Tela! As you know I bought some Hxtal also wanting to save a dino bone piece. Unfortunately my male brain turned it into a "lets build a badass vacuum chamber" project and now at this point after my chamber has failed spectacularly three times I've spent more money than I would have if I had just bought a stupid chamber on Ebay. Typical me project.
I can certainly sympathize with you, Tommy, about letting projects get out of control. Bob picked up a hydraulic ram about ten years ago, and some hydraulic fluid. Gonna build hisself a log splitter. Just needs to get an I-beam, a gas motor, pump, hoses, fittings, etc, etc. He priced out the steel at around $100. I asked him if he had a "plan." His reply - It's not that hard.
Then I asked him if it wouldn't be cheaper, not to mention much quicker, to just buy one already made? So I pulled the trigger on it, and we bought a new 30 ton splitter at Lowes, on sale, assembled and ready to hook to the truck and take it home. Picked it up Sunday morning, split the wood already piled in the yard, picked up a butt load more of it close by and split that too. Building it himself, he might have been able to have a working facsimile of a log splitter working by next year sometime. I'm pretty damn sure it ended up being considerably cheaper (not to mention much cleaner and not having to run all over picking up parts), than him making his own.
Dirty Hand Tools 30-Ton Gas Log Splitter I whole heartedly recommend this machine, and also the people at Lowes. We are very happy with it.
While I understand the male brain, there is absolutely nothing that I can do to change it, lol. Just have to be the voice of reason, and know the work-arounds.
(Tela, I hope you don't mind the thread derailment, I just so identified with Tommy getting carried away and making a deluxe vacuum chamber. Sorry for the commercial.)
Where in the hell is the fun in that? Cheaper, better, done no fun. Vic |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 2, 2018 15:17:20 GMT -5
Where in the hell is the fun in that? Cheaper, better, done no fun. Vic
Ha ha. I shudder to think what a home made one would look like, what it would end up costing in the long run, and how long it would take to build.
Some things, you just gotta suck it up and go buy one that someone else has thoroughly researched, competently designed, and assembled with quality. You don't have to scurry around for parts, clear off an area to build it in, and then there's your labor. Let someone else do it.
I would do it again!
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 17, 2018 8:18:15 GMT -5
Got that piece of dino bone cabbed. Came out nice. The back was a little chippy, but otherwise it cabbed up nice. It has a few very faint stress lines, but overall it is solid. There is no way that I could have cabbed it without the hxtal.  |
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 17, 2018 10:41:58 GMT -5
This is a really interesting article on a simple way to seal cracks in stone. I especially like the Alvin canning jar method for drawing the vacuum. I would like to add to what Bobby1 said about a liquid boiling under negative pressure. I noticed a similar effect with acetone and 303 epoxy used to seal soft areas in Marfa Bouquet plume(not heated) using the Harbor Freight brake bleeder at higher negative pressure. At first the bubbling came from the open areas in the soft plume but then stopped after a few minutes and started to come from the liquid as the negative pressure increased. I researched the boiling point for acetone vs my garage temperature and assumed this is what I was seeing. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 17, 2018 13:59:32 GMT -5
A serendipitous thread, I just got a chunk of very colorful but somewhat porous dino bone. My original thought was quartz caps, but this would be less work.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 18, 2018 20:00:20 GMT -5
This is a really interesting article on a simple way to seal cracks in stone. I especially like the Alvin canning jar method for drawing the vacuum. I would like to add to what Bobby1 said about a liquid boiling under negative pressure. I noticed a similar effect with acetone and 303 epoxy used to seal soft areas in Marfa Bouquet plume(not heated) using the Harbor Freight brake bleeder at higher negative pressure. At first the bubbling came from the open areas in the soft plume but then stopped after a few minutes and started to come from the liquid as the negative pressure increased. I researched the boiling point for acetone vs my garage temperature and assumed this is what I was seeing. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I have been giving this a lot of thought. I went searching for the hxtal msds to see what I could find out about it. I suggest that people who are going to use it check familiarize themselves with this. www.hisglassworks.com/files/HXTAL_SDS.pdfAs far as it possibly boiling in the pressure jar. I don't think it is dangerous, unless the jar should break. Anyone else have anything to add to the issue of boiling? |
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 18, 2018 20:49:45 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I wonder if instead of boiling the correct term would be degassing under negative pressure just like champagne that is opened.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 19, 2018 8:03:43 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I wonder if instead of boiling the correct term would be degassing under negative pressure just like champagne that is opened. I was thinking the same thing. Instead of seeing boiling epoxy, we're seeing degassing epoxy. Could be. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Oct 22, 2018 17:22:50 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I wonder if instead of boiling the correct term would be degassing under negative pressure just like champagne that is opened. I was thinking the same thing. Instead of seeing boiling epoxy, we're seeing degassing epoxy. Could be. I've finally gotten my pressure chamber going and I'm seeing the same thing on (cold) stones that I've covered with epoxy. In my unscientific opinion it is the air being drawn out of the stone and bubbling it's way through the layer of liquid epoxy. It's my understanding that the action of releasing the vacuum is what draws the epoxy into the core of the rock that the air has been removed from. I touched a stone that had been bubbling like crazy and could not detect any change in temperature from how it went in a few minutes prior. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 22, 2018 17:42:21 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. Instead of seeing boiling epoxy, we're seeing degassing epoxy. Could be. I've finally gotten my pressure chamber going and I'm seeing the same thing on (cold) stones that I've covered with epoxy. In my unscientific opinion it is the air being drawn out of the stone and bubbling it's way through the layer of liquid epoxy. It's my understanding that the action of releasing the vacuum is what draws the epoxy into the core of the rock that the air has been removed from. I touched a stone that had been bubbling like crazy and could not detect any change in temperature from how it went in a few minutes prior. Thanks Tommy. Yes, when I saw the bubbles on mine, I thought the same thing- so, I believe it is the air escaping and the small amount of degassing from the epoxy. And, yes, it is the act of releasing the seal that sucks the epoxy into the stone. At least, that's what I think, anyway. That get's me in trouble sometimes, but I'm sticking to it. LOL! Can you post some pictures? This thread is fine if you don't want to start a new one. I'm curious how your project came out, too. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 22, 2018 17:44:08 GMT -5
On another note.... when selling a cab that has been treated this way, is it appropriate to just call it sealed? @rocks2dust ? Anyone else....
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 22, 2018 17:46:14 GMT -5
Sealed or stabilized would both work IMO.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 22, 2018 17:51:41 GMT -5
Sealed or stabilized would both work IMO. Stabilized- that's the word I was looking for! Good Lord, my brain has been on hiatus all day. |
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I didn't think about that. I don't think my stone this time was too hot, but I will definitely keep that in mind. 
