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Post by stardiamond on Nov 21, 2019 15:19:24 GMT -5
I have a very good Etsy customer who has been buying some Owyhee cabs and asked me to make some earrings to match. I decided to give it a try. The Owyhee is the hardest jasper I've every seen and it has been driving me crazy making cabs. Lots of flat spots. I also don't do calibrated but these will be set and are probably close enough. I'm sending her some cabs and will provide these for evaluation. I don't think this is the kind of work I want to do. They may not be calibrated but should be a close match and the time to make one is greater than or equal to making a cab; smaller but requiring more precision. I haven't even come close to coming up witha price.  In enjoy designing more than cutting and making something without much of a scenes isn't fun. The same customer is buying some Blue Biggs cabs and wanted BB earrings. I have a slab of BB where the scenes are better suited to earrings than cabs. I'll see what she thinks of the Owyhee I am sending and go from there.  |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Nov 21, 2019 17:37:44 GMT -5
I would price the pair at your single cab price. That's not enough to justify your time, but I would consider the difference as a marketing cost necessary to please a customer who "who has been buying some" cabs, and who may likely become a repeat buyer. Now I'm 2¢ poorer.  |
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 21, 2019 17:50:11 GMT -5
I would price the pair at your single cab price. That's not enough to justify your time, but I would consider the difference as a marketing cost necessary to please a customer who "who has been buying some" cabs, and who may likely become a repeat buyer. Now I'm 2¢ poorer. My thoughts exactly. I need to add in the enjoyment factor; one pair of earrings to 4 cabs (made not bought). This isn't a job. |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Nov 21, 2019 17:55:07 GMT -5
I would price the pair at your single cab price. That's not enough to justify your time, but I would consider the difference as a marketing cost necessary to please a customer who "who has been buying some" cabs, and who may likely become a repeat buyer. Now I'm 2¢ poorer. My thoughts exactly. I need to add in the enjoyment factor; one pair of earrings to 4 cabs (made not bought). This isn't a job.
Another thought — you might consider telling your customer that you would normally price earring pairs at 1.5 times your single cab price, but for this pair you're giving a discount for being such a good customer to date.
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 21, 2019 18:30:49 GMT -5
We have a much different relationship than typical buyer seller with a lot of communication. I think I am doing a good job managing expectations. The customer would like 6 or more pairs of earrings. I will discuss price after the earrings are evaluated. I saw someone on Etsy was asking $65 for a pair of Biggs earrings that were slightly smaller than what I would make. I can hardly imagine the asking price for a pair of Biggs earrings set in silver.
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Post by rockjunquie on Nov 21, 2019 19:04:23 GMT -5
I don't like cutting earring stones, making earrings or selling either. The way I see it- earrings cabs are 2 small pendant cabs and and earrings take just as much time as 2 small pendants. In fact, it is much easier to make a larger pendant than a small earring and then you have to do a mirror image. Anymore, unless it is cheap material that I know I can make a profit on, or a custom job where I know I can get a decent price, I just won't cut them or make them. I can buy cheap earring pairs and spend my time making money in other ways.
I want to charge 2x for earring cabs, but generally charge 1.5, which doesn't seem right. Unless it is top end material, then it's 2x. I get that there might be more weight in a pendant stone, but even if that, it is more difficult and thereby- it takes more time- to get them exact. To me, earrings just seem like a losing proposition.
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Post by lpl on Nov 21, 2019 19:07:11 GMT -5
I’ve cut enough small, calibrated cabs for earrings to know that it’s not a great deal of fun. All I can say is I feel your pain!
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 21, 2019 19:26:14 GMT -5
I don't like cutting earring stones, making earrings or selling either. The way I see it- earrings cabs are 2 small pendant cabs and and earrings take just as much time as 2 small pendants. In fact, it is much easier to make a larger pendant than a small earring and then you have to do a mirror image. Anymore, unless it is cheap material that I know I can make a profit on, or a custom job where I know I can get a decent price, I just won't cut them or make them. I can buy cheap earring pairs and spend my time making money in other ways. I want to charge 2x for earring cabs, but generally charge 1.5, which doesn't seem right. Unless it is top end material, then it's 2x. I get that there might be more weight in a pendant stone, but even if that, it is more difficult and thereby- it takes more time- to get them exact. To me, earrings just seem like a losing proposition.
I made the pair as a training exercise/challenge to myself. I feel good about my design and the material I use. I'm striving to improve my craftsmanship. The Blue Owyhee even as cabs is a real challenge. The doming is easy, it's the sanding that is driving me crazy. Working small makes it even more difficult but I learned something working the earrings. Working on Biggs, Morgan Hill, Tahoma and about everything I work my sanding technique is fine. The only comparable material is Bruneau and the Blue Owyhee is worse. Since the earrings were small I used golf tees as dops. One kept coming off and I tried using a small dop stick and really bore down against the 600 grit wheel. It's not worn down and the 325 wouldn't solve the problem. I've got a bunch of Owyhee to cut to it would be a good idea to figure it out. I have absolutely no interest in listing earrings. I am trying to help out a good customer. |
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Nov 22, 2019 11:52:05 GMT -5
Wow, Stephen, once again you have some of the most amazing material. Really well done. I think the smaller pieces like earrings are tough to even shape properly. Well done! As I look at this gorgeous slab, I wonder how the other teardrop which you also outlined, turned out.
You know, I cannot even imagine having the freedom to take such a rare piece of stone, and circle the absolute best parts of it for just a couple special template pieces, sacrificing the remainder of the rock to the saw. I don't have any kind of material which even approaches yours, and when I do cut something out of a larger stone, I am always shaky and worried that I will ruin the work somehow. Your material would make me extra jittery, trying hard not to make a mistake.
That is the one thing about having crappy rocks (like I do), is that I hardly every worry about messing up. It frees me up some to be expressive and take chances. Good rocks, which I rarely find, give me grief.
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 22, 2019 12:06:26 GMT -5
Wow, Stephen, once again you have some of the most amazing material. Really well done. I think the smaller pieces like earrings are tough to even shape properly. Well done! As I look at this gorgeous slab, I wonder how the other teardrop which you also outlined, turned out. You know, I cannot even imagine having the freedom to take such a rare piece of stone, and circle the absolute best parts of it for just a couple special template pieces, sacrificing the remainder of the rock to the saw. I don't have any kind of material which even approaches yours, and when I do cut something out of a larger stone, I am always shaky and worried that I will ruin the work somehow. Your material would make me extra jittery, trying hard not to make a mistake. That is the one thing about having crappy rocks (like I do), is that I hardly every worry about messing up. It frees me up some to be expressive and take chances. Good rocks, which I rarely find, give me grief. I got a drool worthy piece of Blue Biggs on auction on ebay some years ago and people forgot to bid. Back then your id wasn't hidden and I got messages from some of the top cab makers congratulating me on the score. I was very careful an got some wonderful cabs from the piece. This piece would be described as nice. I paid less than $30 for it and it was 6-1/2" x 3-3/4" x 1/2" to 5/8" Weight: 1 lb, 0.8 oz. The scariest part was splitting it into two slabs and I did an ok job. The cabs it will produce are worth about half of the ones made with the other piece. There are still bargains on ebay and I keep looking. I cut one 40x30 pear.  |
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Nov 22, 2019 12:12:45 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the 40x30 piece. Wow, you really have an eye for getting the most out of what a stone can give you. This rock looks like (to me) a tornado brewing in a storm (clouds above, and earth below). It really turned out great! Better (in my opinion) than what the original template outline on the slab appeared that it would give you. Nice work, and thanks for sharing!
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 22, 2019 12:54:46 GMT -5
This is a cab cut from the best piece:  |
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rxscram
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2011
Posts: 519
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Post by rxscram on Nov 22, 2019 14:06:58 GMT -5
This is a cab cut from the best piece: Wow, that is a great cowboy head and body in that scene! |
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Nov 22, 2019 14:17:36 GMT -5
thought — you might consider telling your customer that you would normally price earring pairs at 1.5 times your single cab price, but for this pair you're giving a discount for being such a good customer to date. [/div][/quote] Life long salesman here. As a customer, this tactic always ruins the deal for me. I recognize it as a tactic to "buy" customer loyalty and not genuine. I feel so strongly about this I won't ever use it in my negotiations. I would love to hear from you and everybody. When a salesperson uses this tactic on you, do you appreciate it? Am I completely off base? I ask because I have read many of your posts and have great respect for you and your practices. Please don't stop. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 14:30:33 GMT -5
Wow, that is a great cowboy head and body in that scene! You are right, though I was seeing Indiana Jones in closeup on the left (nose and mouth under a fedora) with his side-kick (the Alfred Molina character) standing in the background on the right. |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Nov 22, 2019 15:16:42 GMT -5
thought — you might consider telling your customer that you would normally price earring pairs at 1.5 times your single cab price, but for this pair you're giving a discount for being such a good customer to date. Life long salesman here. As a customer, this tactic always ruins the deal for me. I recognize it as a tactic to "buy" customer loyalty and not genuine. I feel so strongly about this I won't ever use it in my negotiations. I would love to hear from you and everybody. When a salesperson uses this tactic on you, do you appreciate it? Am I completely off base? I ask because I have read many of your posts and have great respect for you and your practices. Please don't stop.
Thanks. I think that you make a good point about setting expectations. In stardiamond 's case, I think that he could easily couch a discount offer in terms of Black Friday without risk of an undesirable reaction.
My very best customer of late is someone who has been buying cabs at nearly a monthly rate. When she first purchased, I noted that she does beading and a little silversmithing, so I began to include a couple of Sterling beads with her cabs. (I rarely use them.) I've done that a few times and lately she's purchased 2-3 cabs at a time. In those instances I've also included an extra cab, usually a small one.
I'm not discounting price, but I've certainly set an expectation. What do you think about buying a cab and receiving a free one? Buying loyalty? Certainly it has to affect how customers value your product.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Nov 22, 2019 15:25:55 GMT -5
opalpyrexiaI think little unexpected gifts of appreciation are truly valuable forms of building brand and buyer loyalty. Shows appreciation. I bought a car from a dude that to this day (at his 4th dealer) still mails me a birthday card out every year. I'd buy from him again in a minute. I bet he has a lot of repeat business. Shawn at rockshed is famous for sending a few Tootsie rolls in every order. Who wouldn't repeat with him? 😜 Makers Mark bourbon sends me a Christmas gift to adorn a bottle every year. Guess which bourbon I use? 😎 It's when we are negotiating a deal and a seller says "for you, a loyal customer, I offer $1 Everyone else pays $3." That feels so slimy to me. We both know it's crap and I don't feel appreciated.
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 22, 2019 15:38:41 GMT -5
I list almost every thing with free shipping. The customer previously bought over 10 cabs from me in two orders with no discount. The latest order was 13 cabs and I told her I would send her a code for 20% off before she placed her order. I save 10% because of the co0mbined shipping over single cab purchases. I also would rather ship one order than 13. There will definitely be future orders and something should be provided for customer loyalty. If I were selling as a side job, I wouldn't sell. I have an atypical business model. I make what I like, sell it and buy nicer material.
I'm retired, have less income than when I was working and can buy any lapidary equipment and materials that I want without feeling bad about it.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Nov 22, 2019 21:18:48 GMT -5
Wow, that is a great cowboy head and body in that scene! You are right, though I was seeing Indiana Jones in closeup on the left (nose and mouth under a fedora) with his side-kick (the Alfred Molina character) standing in the background on the right. I'm seeing Clint Eastwood in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly with his poncho on. |
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 22, 2019 21:30:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure when I made the cab. It could be 10 years or more and my wife may have done the design. I like to incorporate things like flowers and trees and even a pelican. I never even noticed the figure. I have a Deschutes cab where a man is standing behind a pile of rocks.
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