EricD
Cave Dweller 
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 13:30:37 GMT -5
I've purchased an 8" MK-301 blade for my tile saw.
I was going to use it with a clean water system with a pump and nozzles above the blade and in front of the cut (think automotive windshield washer pump and nozzle type system here), but after reading that an oil based coolant (like mineral oil/horse laxative) would lengthen the blade life by 3 times, I am kind of on the fence about trying just water. Therefore I have not yet mounted the blade.
I searched the forum quite extensively but never came to a conclusion from what I read about other's experiments.
Do any of you use plain (and clean) water alone to lubricate your small MK-301 blade? If so, has it lasted as long as you thought it should? I would also be interested to hear about what coolants/lubricants you DO use, even if you do not use water, and how long your blade has lasted so far.
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Post by aDave on Jan 11, 2020 13:57:56 GMT -5
I've purchased an 8" MK-301 blade for my tile saw.
I was going to use it with a clean water system with a pump and nozzles above the blade and in front of the cut (think automotive windshield washer pump and nozzle type system here), but after reading that an oil based coolant (like mineral oil/horse laxative) would lengthen the blade life by 3 times, I am kind of on the fence about trying just water. Therefore I have not yet mounted the blade.
I searched the forum quite extensively but never came to a conclusion from what I read about other's experiments.
Do any of you use plain (and clean) water alone to lubricate your small MK-301 blade? If so, has it lasted as long as you thought it should? I would also be interested to hear about what coolants/lubricants you DO use, even if you do not use water, and how long your blade has lasted so far.
I'll preface my reply by stating I'm in no way a saw/saw blade expert. I would agree with your assessment that oil is typically a better lubricant/lubricant than plain water and using oil may help prolong blade life. However, most larger saws where oil is used (10" is the cutoff, I believe), such saws have a hood where misting and splashing is contained to the saw itself. Not so with a tile saw. I use a 7" tile saw, and I use water only. Because the blade rotates through a reservoir to pick up water, I can't imagine how messy things would be if I was using oil. Even with standing behind the saw and pulling the work toward me, I still manage to get wet. In that respect I'm glad I only use water. With using a tile saw, just beware of how hard and fast you're feeding, and that will help with blade life a bit. Also remember that most tile saws are turning at a much higher RPM than what you would see with a lapidary saw. That also adds to blade wear. Those are some quick thoughts off the top of my head. What kind of saw do you have? |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 14:18:47 GMT -5
I'll preface my reply by stating I'm in no way a saw/saw blade expert. I would agree with your assessment that oil is typically a better lubricant/lubricant than plain water and using oil may help prolong blade life. However, most larger saws where oil is used (10" is the cutoff, I believe), such saws have a hood where misting and splashing is contained to the saw itself. Not so with a tile saw. I use a 7" tile saw, and I use water only. Because the blade rotates through a reservoir to pick up water, I can't imagine how messy things would be if I was using oil. Even with standing behind the saw and pulling the work toward me, I still manage to get wet. In that respect I'm glad I only use water. With using a tile saw, just beware of how hard and fast you're feeding, and that will help with blade life a bit. Also remember that most tile saws are turning at a much higher RPM than what you would see with a lapidary saw. That also adds to blade wear. Those are some quick thoughts off the top of my head. What kind of saw do you have? It's a Ridgid 4021 that was originally a 7" and turns at a maximum RPM of 3450. The MK-301 8" blade has a recommended speed of 4500 and a maximum of 7640
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 15:02:34 GMT -5
aDave I have a makeshift hood for mine, a clear storage bin and I'm in the process of making a better, larger one. I also dislike getting wet while sawing. Also, here's a pic of my gravity feed slab vise: 
I need to build something to regulate the feed speed before using it again
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Post by stardiamond on Jan 11, 2020 15:21:50 GMT -5
I have the Genie trim saw attachment which uses an 8" MK303 blade with water and an additive (lube kool/ cool/lube). The concentration used is much greater than used with the cabbing wheels. I did a lot of slabbing with it and went through a lot of blades. Comparing the speed of the cut using a manual feed and automatic feed on my slab saw, the cuts I made using the trim saw were much faster and that contributed to short blade life. On my Covington combo saw, the first replacement was an mk303 and most recently a mk301 both using oil.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 15:34:12 GMT -5
Speaking of cut speed, how does one know when it's just right, if I were to buy a servo to limit my gravity feed setup to a specific speed? When hand feeding, I try to give it just enough pressure that it doesn't bounce/chatter against the blade.
Is there such a thing as feeding too slowly?
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Post by aDave on Jan 11, 2020 18:09:05 GMT -5
aDave I have a makeshift hood for mine, a clear storage bin and I'm in the process of making a better, larger one. I also dislike getting wet while sawing. Also, here's a pic of my gravity feed slab vise: Interesting feed design. So, is it the combined weight of the rock and clamp that lowers the rock onto the blade? Nicely done. |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 18:32:20 GMT -5
Interesting feed design. So, is it the combined weight of the rock and clamp that lowers the rock onto the blade? Nicely done. Yes it is. at the end of the cut it is too much and breaks the rock off, and a lot of trimming has to be done on each slab. That's why I would like a servo motor or something like that to regulate the feed to a set amount of distance per minute. Just hard to figure out exactly how fast and I'm sure it differs a lot with blade surface speed and rock density and coolant and blade thickness and ambient temperature and barometric pressure and wind speed, not to mention planet wobble and where RocksInNJ currently has his anti-grav boots stashed that he left on. |
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Post by aDave on Jan 11, 2020 18:54:16 GMT -5
Interesting feed design. So, is it the combined weight of the rock and clamp that lowers the rock onto the blade? Nicely done. Yes it is. at the end of the cut it is too much and breaks the rock off, and a lot of trimming has to be done on each slab. That's why I would like a servo motor or something like that to regulate the feed to a set amount of distance per minute. Just hard to figure out exactly how fast and I'm sure it differs a lot with blade surface speed and rock density and coolant and blade thickness and ambient temperature and barometric pressure and wind speed, not to mention planet wobble and where RocksInNJ currently has his anti-grav boots stashed that he left on. I don't know if there's any way to NOT have a bit of a nub to deal with, but I'd have to think that slower is better. I'm not into electronics that much to be able to help with a servo setup and then how you'd regulate the speed. My first thought was to wonder if there was any way to counterbalance your setup - something along the lines of threaded rod that has been screwed into your "hub," somewhat opposite of where the clamp post has been welded to the hub. Screw a length of the rod into a drilled and tapped hole. Then set your weight anywhere along that rod to adjust and control speed. Weight being held still by nuts on each side. Might interfere with the cover you're working on. I'm just spitballing.  |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 11, 2020 19:12:22 GMT -5
I was thinking something like a 16mm per minute linear actuator like THIS
I like the counterbalance idea, but that would require me to vary the weight applied on a per-rock basis. Which may be needed anyhow, to get the most out of your blade.
I'm also just tossing ideas around and trying to find one that will possibly be what I need  |
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Post by stardiamond on Jan 11, 2020 19:24:44 GMT -5
My first saw was cooled using a wet sponge.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 12, 2020 19:16:02 GMT -5
OK so here's what I came up with.
A saw tank drain into the bottom of a bucket where the rock dust can settle if it feels like it. Very simple, just a hose stuck into a slightly smaller hole in the tank. A Ford windshield washer pump made in Japan by Denso. It's a quality part. That thing pumps water from the top of the drain bucket , to a tee, and then through two hoses with some copper wire that runs through both hoses and through the tee to provide a tube that can be bent and retain the shape you want it.
Ending the water supply system hoses are two 0.6mm wire welder tips that I just jammed into the hose, that provide a more than excellent stream of water onto the blade. I then used an $8 storage bin for a hood, to keep me warm and dry. Well, not my hands. I riveted some aluminum around the perimeter of the saw to kind of contain the container within the boundaries of the saw deck. I will be using straight water with this blade and try to document the number of head on cuts I make through a decent sized stone, (think slabs), so I can compare it to oil coolant later on. I'm being very nice to the blade  Then I installed the MK-301 blade. Oh, you wanted pictures?  Fine, here ya are: 
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Post by aDave on Jan 12, 2020 20:16:40 GMT -5
That looks like it will do well in keeping you dry. How nice is that where the container looks to be the perfect size for being contained on the deck which still allows for the gutter returns to still work? Any concern about the cloudy water being run through the pump over time? Can the pump be rebuilt, or is it even worth the attempt? You certainly picked some nice hard material to start running and testing things. Don't know if you've seen this document before, but there's a nice section on saw blade maintenance (starting on page 5). I followed some of the techniques in it and was able to take the diamond rim on my last blade all the way to the core before it was replaced. The document is in the first post. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/52499/general-lapidary-info |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 12, 2020 21:59:21 GMT -5
That looks like it will do well in keeping you dry. How nice is that where the container looks to be the perfect size for being contained on the deck which still allows for the gutter returns to still work? Any concern about the cloudy water being run through the pump over time? Can the pump be rebuilt, or is it even worth the attempt? You certainly picked some nice hard material to start running and testing things. Don't know if you've seen this document before, but there's a nice section on saw blade maintenance (starting on page 5). I followed some of the techniques in it and was able to take the diamond rim on my last blade all the way to the core before it was replaced. The document is in the first post. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/52499/general-lapidary-infoThe pump is kind of like a boat's bilge pump. Plastic impeller with high clearance to it's housing, just thrashing about enough to be called a pump. They regularly process large chunks of things, at least in a boat. I tried to design it to allow the cloudiness to settle out but I guess a dual bucket setup may be in order.
I have seen and read that thread and the PDF, it's some excellent information. Thanks for bringing it up for anyone else reading this thread!
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Post by aDave on Jan 12, 2020 23:40:38 GMT -5
The pump is kind of like a boat's bilge pump. Plastic impeller with high clearance to it's housing, just thrashing about enough to be called a pump. They regularly process large chunks of things, at least in a boat. I tried to design it to allow the cloudiness to settle out but I guess a dual bucket setup may be in order. Check out this thread that NevadaBill did about his dual bucket system for his cab machine. It is very detailed. He's not provided an update as to how the pump (he used) is holding up. Despite the dual buckets, sediment remained suspended and spilled over into the bucket where the pump was located, and Bill expressed concern about the long-term effect on the pump. Maybe there's some information you can use. |
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Post by knave on Jan 12, 2020 23:49:23 GMT -5
EricD I love the innovation you have, some great ideas.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 13, 2020 0:58:31 GMT -5
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 15, 2020 9:27:29 GMT -5
Well, my washer fluid pump burned up. Open circuit. Not exactly a continuous duty motor, it was designed for washer fluid misers, a few seconds of run time per month.
It was free, so no big deal. Mid-cut but I caught it immediately - no harm done. I believe it came from an '89 F-150, so it had been around the block a few times.
Any suggestions for a replacement, from experience? It's 18 below this morning, so I doubt I will be visiting my friend's junkyard looking for another one today.
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Post by aDave on Jan 15, 2020 13:35:49 GMT -5
Well, my washer fluid pump burned up. Open circuit. Not exactly a continuous duty motor, it was designed for washer fluid misers, a few seconds of run time per month. It was free, so no big deal. Mid-cut but I caught it immediately - no harm done. I believe it came from an '89 F-150, so it had been around the block a few times. Any suggestions for a replacement, from experience? It's 18 below this morning, so I doubt I will be visiting my friend's junkyard looking for another one today. From what I've seen of folks building a water delivery system, aquarium pumps are often used. I think that's what NevadaBill used in his build, but I can't say for sure. I haven't gone back through the thread to check. ETA: Okay, I just looked. Bill used a fountain pump in his build, and he has an Amazon link in his thread for what he bought. Looks like he did a bunch of research related to minimum gallons per hour (gph) that may be needed to overcome the head pressure from the height the water must travel. |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jan 15, 2020 14:43:52 GMT -5
Well, my washer fluid pump burned up. Open circuit. Not exactly a continuous duty motor, it was designed for washer fluid misers, a few seconds of run time per month. It was free, so no big deal. Mid-cut but I caught it immediately - no harm done. I believe it came from an '89 F-150, so it had been around the block a few times. Any suggestions for a replacement, from experience? It's 18 below this morning, so I doubt I will be visiting my friend's junkyard looking for another one today. From what I've seen of folks building a water delivery system, aquarium pumps are often used. I think that's what NevadaBill used in his build, but I can't say for sure. I haven't gone back through the thread to check. ETA: Okay, I just looked. Bill used a fountain pump in his build, and he has an Amazon link in his thread for what he bought. Looks like he did a bunch of research related to minimum gallons per hour (gph) that may be needed to overcome the head pressure from the height the water must travel. Thank you! I was also thinking aquarium pump at least for a temporary pump, but nobody in town has one. |
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Fine, here ya are:
