jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 12:39:54 GMT -5
HankRocks TDK 2.5mm core bits should be on your next shopping list. I believe $12/20 bits. .8mm, 1.2mm and 1.5mm solid bits are way more difficult to drill with. The 2.5mm core is night and day from the solids of any size.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Feb 23, 2020 13:11:27 GMT -5
I’ve been using the pointed ones and have not had any blowouts Why did I not know about this revelation ? The chucking device on these dental drill units is I believe a tight fitting 1.6mm hole. Precision chucking clamp is critical at such high speeds. The chuck on the jewelry drill press is not totally aligned, noticeable wobble at speeds over 5000 rpm. Or it could be the cheap imported bits... This unit may be a fine replacement for Dremel's in general. Will soon find out.
I've had one of these units for several years, although mine was private labeled and sold by Gesswein. I use it for wax, opal, and stone drilling, but generally not for metalsmithing because I have Foredom alternatives. I really like it.
Oh — and thanks for the lead on dental burs and bits.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 14:48:26 GMT -5
Stone drilling opalpyrexia ? How did it perform for that if you don't mind me asking ? The dental bits are new to me, no idea how they will perform. It seems that diamond cutters depend heavily on how the diamonds are prepared before sintering/brazing. Specifically their sharpness. Paying more than 20 cents to a dollar per bit would not be an issue at all if they would drill more efficiently. General purpose bits cost around a dollar; 20 cents per dental bit was a surprise. You'd think they would cost more. Next dental appointment I am twisting my dentist's arm for some bits they purchase from their supply houses. |
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Post by TheRock on Feb 23, 2020 15:39:17 GMT -5
I have a larger version of that tool see it HERE WARNING starting the unit at full speed the damn thing has so much torque it bend and twist any burr or bit like a pretzel. This is not a toy but a fine piece ofm equipment. Just be careful. P.S. Can you guys see all my pictures okay? For some reason I cant but can see all of your pics.   Any comments on drilling performance TheRock ? I would have preferred the 60,000 rpm over 35,000. I believe speed is the game with drilling. I bet that machine will jump out of your hand when revving up to 60k instantly. The high end Dremel does 30K but it has some vibration issues at such high speeds. Have you considered a pneumatic dental drill ? I believe they have to have an auto oil feed. Well how I found out bout the High Speed stuff is Rockoonz put me on to a guy at JADECARVER named David Clayton who is very knowledgeable on Jade Carving, and supplies his diamond bits and his dental diamond machines the NSK Expert 500 Torque Micromotor No doubt its a fine tool just nut $1810.00 worth of nice. So I started researching and found the MAISILAO to give great performance at a cheaper price. All the HotShoe Carvers in the world ofn carving use these according to David who I have talked to several times on the phone. Yes his bits cost more but he has quick shipping and has the best stuff. Hey I am still gonna get some the Flee Bay Bits when I get home how bout the Brass eylets do you have ba link to those jim? Oh and yes the machine Kicks Arse after all all THE BIG BOYS USE THEM!  |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Feb 23, 2020 15:48:04 GMT -5
Stone drilling opalpyrexia ? How did it perform for that if you don't mind me asking ? The dental bits are new to me, no idea how they will perform. It seems that diamond cutters depend heavily on how the diamonds are prepared before sintering/brazing. Specifically their sharpness. Paying more than 20 cents to a dollar per bit would not be an issue at all if they would drill more efficiently. General purpose bits cost around a dollar; 20 cents per dental bit was a surprise. You'd think they would cost more. Next dental appointment I am twisting my dentist's arm for some bits they purchase from their supply houses.
I've done very little drilling and done it freehand, and the micromotor unit worked fine for me. I'm primarily interested in the dental burs for dealing with some boulder opal and doing some carving. |
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Post by toiv0 on Feb 23, 2020 15:50:38 GMT -5
Stone drilling opalpyrexia ? How did it perform for that if you don't mind me asking ? The dental bits are new to me, no idea how they will perform. It seems that diamond cutters depend heavily on how the diamonds are prepared before sintering/brazing. Specifically their sharpness. Paying more than 20 cents to a dollar per bit would not be an issue at all if they would drill more efficiently. General purpose bits cost around a dollar; 20 cents per dental bit was a surprise. You'd think they would cost more. Next dental appointment I am twisting my dentist's arm for some bits they purchase from their supply houses.
I've done very little drilling and done it freehand, and the micromotor unit worked fine for me. I'm primarily interested in the dental burs for dealing with some boulder opal and doing some carving. Do you have the micro motor James showed at the beginning of this thread? |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 16:02:18 GMT -5
I've done very little drilling and done it freehand, and the micromotor unit worked fine for me. I'm primarily interested in the dental burs for dealing with some boulder opal and doing some carving. Do you have the micro motor James showed at the beginning of this thread? I placed an order for it Billy. Not got hands on it just yet. Pay attention to what shaft size it chucks. It may be only 1.6mm, not sure about 2mm. I may have seen it also on EBAY for $55 after Buy It was pushed. I got the black motor, not the fancier silver on for $49. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 16:04:32 GMT -5
Stone drilling opalpyrexia ? How did it perform for that if you don't mind me asking ? The dental bits are new to me, no idea how they will perform. It seems that diamond cutters depend heavily on how the diamonds are prepared before sintering/brazing. Specifically their sharpness. Paying more than 20 cents to a dollar per bit would not be an issue at all if they would drill more efficiently. General purpose bits cost around a dollar; 20 cents per dental bit was a surprise. You'd think they would cost more. Next dental appointment I am twisting my dentist's arm for some bits they purchase from their supply houses. I've done very little drilling and done it freehand, and the micromotor unit worked fine for me. I'm primarily interested in the dental burs for dealing with some boulder opal and doing some carving. That's right opalpyrexia. Hope they work for your intent. Thanks. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 16:16:46 GMT -5
Bet the oversea unit treats you well TheRock. Let's see how the $80 unit does. Prefer the 60k over the 35k. It is the sharpness of the diamonds in the bit that counts heavily in cutting speeds. I think the search term for those jewelry eye bolts is 'eye bolt pins'. Those in photo were found on ETSY. That particular photo are cheap ones. Wife bought the stainless ones from another supplier. Amazon according to her. There were different suppliers on Amazon. Some have stop flanges on them. Played hell drilling a .8mm hole in glass using a flat face solid bit with the Rio press so beware. |
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Post by knave on Feb 23, 2020 17:35:53 GMT -5
That speed could sure generate a lot of heat. And the centrifugal forces may not allow the water to penetrate the hole clear down to the end of the bit. Btw, I ordered some bits also. Seller probably wonders what’s going on. Lol
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 23, 2020 18:15:49 GMT -5
I have so many Foredom flex shafts it's ridiculous, I will never need to buy a different one, and nothing I've tried really works any different.
I also now drill all my 3mm and smaller holes with ball end burrs by hand, easy to control and easy to prevent blow outs, I just hold the piece with a finger where the exit point will be and when it gets close I go slower and feel for the tickle. Soon as I feel it I turn it over and finish from the back. 100% success so far. If I ever decide I need a production line I'll get an ultrasonic drill anyway, but that's doubtful.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 21:00:48 GMT -5
I have so many Foredom flex shafts it's ridiculous, I will never need to buy a different one, and nothing I've tried really works any different. I also now drill all my 3mm and smaller holes with ball end burrs by hand, easy to control and easy to prevent blow outs, I just hold the piece with a finger where the exit point will be and when it gets close I go slower and feel for the tickle. Soon as I feel it I turn it over and finish from the back. 100% success so far. If I ever decide I need a production line I'll get an ultrasonic drill anyway, but that's doubtful. I was curious about ball ends Lee. What diameter ? And how much does an ultrasonic cost ? |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 21:04:53 GMT -5
That speed could sure generate a lot of heat. And the centrifugal forces may not allow the water to penetrate the hole clear down to the end of the bit. Btw, I ordered some bits also. Seller probably wonders what’s going on. Lol I drill underwater Evan. Just barely. Diamond cutters like water. The seller is probably curious. I wonder if dentists really order 20 cent bits. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 23, 2020 21:29:03 GMT -5
Dentists order them buy the hundreds, maybe even thousands, depending on the size of their practice. I believe they only use them once and then toss them. They have to be really sharp -- after all, they are working on peoples' teeth and they would have to sterilize them after each patient (eeeewwww!)
I asked my dentist back home years ago to save me his carvers and pick things that he was going to throw out. As soon as they get even an iota dull, they toss them. Let me tell you, those things are still sharp!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 22:38:02 GMT -5
Dentists order them buy the hundreds, maybe even thousands, depending on the size of their practice. I believe they only use them once and then toss them. They have to be really sharp -- after all, they are working on peoples' teeth and they would have to sterilize them after each patient (eeeewwww!)
I asked my dentist back home years ago to save me his carvers and pick things that he was going to throw out. As soon as they get even an iota dull, they toss them. Let me tell you, those things are still sharp!
Sharp is the game Robin. Look at a diamond well drill bit. It is a bunch of 1/2 inch sintered balls loaded with round(octahedral) diamond crystals brazed in a heavy flange and are as smooth as a baby's butt. But they have 1000's of pounds of rotating vibratory impact forces behind them for grinding thru solid granite 1 inch per minute. Ball shaped to avoid breakage and dulling. For low pressure grinding like a dentist's drill you need sharp diamonds that cut with the slightest pressure. Single sifted crushed diamond crystals are the sharpest diamonds. They won't last long under high pressures but have ok longevity with low pressure. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2020 23:07:34 GMT -5
I have so many Foredom flex shafts it's ridiculous, I will never need to buy a different one, and nothing I've tried really works any different. I also now drill all my 3mm and smaller holes with ball end burrs by hand, easy to control and easy to prevent blow outs, I just hold the piece with a finger where the exit point will be and when it gets close I go slower and feel for the tickle. Soon as I feel it I turn it over and finish from the back. 100% success so far. If I ever decide I need a production line I'll get an ultrasonic drill anyway, but that's doubtful. Thanks Rockoonz. I just did a 5mm ball end hole, did OK. Not blow out. Betting a 1.5mm or 2mm or 3mm ball end will get er done. Ordered BR-31c,41,31,30,30C. All small ball enders. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 23, 2020 23:16:08 GMT -5
I have so many Foredom flex shafts it's ridiculous, I will never need to buy a different one, and nothing I've tried really works any different. I also now drill all my 3mm and smaller holes with ball end burrs by hand, easy to control and easy to prevent blow outs, I just hold the piece with a finger where the exit point will be and when it gets close I go slower and feel for the tickle. Soon as I feel it I turn it over and finish from the back. 100% success so far. If I ever decide I need a production line I'll get an ultrasonic drill anyway, but that's doubtful. I was curious about ball ends Lee. What diameter ? And how much does an ultrasonic cost ? I have them in 1.5mm, 2mm, and 3mm. I usually drill a hole in a pendant with a 2mm and follow up with a 3mm to lightly chamfer the ends of the hole before moving on to Nova burrs to finish. A basic cheap chinese ultrasonic will run about $1600.00 new, and goes up from there. If you want one that does multiple holes simultaneously a lot more. |
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Feb 23, 2020 23:27:44 GMT -5
In answer to how do the dental cutters work. I haven't gotten really comparative with them, but for what I do, they work fine, I think as good as carving cutters in the Dremel. I never lean on them hard, and they are cheap.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2020 8:22:18 GMT -5
I was curious about ball ends Lee. What diameter ? And how much does an ultrasonic cost ? I have them in 1.5mm, 2mm, and 3mm. I usually drill a hole in a pendant with a 2mm and follow up with a 3mm to lightly chamfer the ends of the hole before moving on to Nova burrs to finish. A basic cheap chinese ultrasonic will run about $1600.00 new, and goes up from there. If you want one that does multiple holes simultaneously a lot more. We'd have to start making money to get an Ultrasonic lol.. Have you ever seen an ultrasonic drill a hole in a good hard agate Rockoonz ? I was reading about expensive US made dental diamond bits costing 5 to 30 dollars each. The manufacturer makes a big effort to orient the diamonds to have the sharpest points of each diamond facing outward when fusing them to matrix on aggressive cutting bits. They also use fine-medium-coarse diamonds depending on smooth to aggressive cutting needs. China diamond tool technology is the best in the world in the mass production business. There is a good chance China is using the same orientation technology on these cheap bits. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2020 8:28:01 GMT -5
In answer to how do the dental cutters work. I haven't gotten really comparative with them, but for what I do, they work fine, I think as good as carving cutters in the Dremel. I never lean on them hard, and they are cheap. I seem to be getting about the same life out of 2.5mm core bits whether I press hard or soft Larry. One of my tools is a cheap jeweler's drill press and it can really put the force down on the bit. The TDK brand bits at about 50 cents each - I have to bear down hard for them to initiate cutting. They barely cut with light pressure. As if there is a pressure sweet spot where it bites in. Typical of dull diamond cutters. |
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