polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 5, 2020 14:37:44 GMT -5
Ok, after that embarrassing title let me extend what's on my mind. So I have a lot of stones and not enough storage space. I want to sell some rocks, but in my country demand is very small. To grow my chances to sell rocks I need to polish it. But nearest rock polisher is about 300 miles away. So here's my problem.
I have a lot of stones to grind and polish, jaspers, flints, agates, with other stuff on the way (actually in the mine yet... yet). First think: I need to buy a lap. Second thing: what lap - and here's a problem. I have no experience with laps or polishing rocks. I also haven't very much money to spend (about 500 USD). After some research I found that theres two types of laps: vibrating and rotating. That's a problem, because the more I read the more I was upset. Somebody say's that rotating lap is more useful, somebody else that vibrating laps are useless, another opinion said that vibra laps are good and can create good polish.
Now I really don't know what to do. Do I should buy vibrating lap now, when USD is cheap, or wait and get more money to get rotating lap. Can I use rotating or vibrating lap without experience? Whose machine will be better to polish a lot of rocks - I don't wonna stay behind lap to polish 10-15 rocks. Whose machine will be better to polish big rocks - in shop I found information that 16" vibrating lap can work only with 4" rocks - it's really an issue? Is it good place to post that thread?
Okay, but in sequence... I'll write every my question and I'll number it to simplify discussion later.
1. I'm new on this forum and I really don't know where is a right place for this post. I decide to put it here to not make mess in other more specific section. It's good choice?
2. How to polish on vibrating or rotating lap? Is it just running it with grits or there's some more procedure like burnishing in rock tumbler?
3. How long it takes to grind and polish rock with rotary lap and how long with vibrating?
4. When I contact with KinglseyNorth shop I found information that I can work only with 3" rocks on 12" vibrating lap or 4" on 16" - is it really an issue? Can I polish on 16" vibrating lap 14" rock?
5. Whose of these machine creates greater polish?
6. Some of my rocks have only 3 on Mosh scale it's a problem?
7. Can I work on one lap with rocks of different hardness?
8. I should buy vibrating lap now when USD is cheap or wait and when I get more buy rotating one?
9. I need to know something more to avoid another thread "can't use flat lap - help"?
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Post by pauls on Aug 5, 2020 17:41:09 GMT -5
Welcome Polaszko from Australia.
You have a lot of questions which is good, I don't have time just now to answer all of them but I will come back in an hour or two and go through them and give you answers. Feel free to ask me anything. There's no stupid questions. Don't buy anything until we have had a chance to chat.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Aug 5, 2020 18:34:44 GMT -5
My first question is what are you trying to cut and polish? Are you going to make cabochons or are you just going to face polish your rocks for specimens?
The answer to that will help us help you decide what you need.
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 5, 2020 19:13:33 GMT -5
I started out with used equipment and then spent a lot of money. I have never used a rock tumbler. Tumbling to polish stones seems to be the least expensive way to start. A tile saw, a tumbling machine or vibrating lap, a hand held grinder (dremel) or a water cooled arbor.
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Post by pauls on Aug 5, 2020 19:17:40 GMT -5
Question 1, Is this the right place for this post? Probably not the best, but it will do.
To help you. Our questions to you.
Do you have a saw?
Are the rocks you want to polish already cut and have a flat surface, or slabs, or are they just lumps of rock?
What market are you aiming for, cut stones for jewellery, or specimen stones with a polished surface?
The Mohs 3 rocks what are they? Calcite and Marble polish nicely, some of the other sedimentary rocks wont.
A vibrating lap does only one job, that is to grind and polish a face on an already flat sawn rock, it is not a quick process and will take days to get a rock to the stage where it is ready to polish. It is not very good at doing thin slabs of rock. If the rock doesn't already have a flat surface it will not make one. It uses loose Silicon Carbide grit and water to do the job and can be messy.
A wet grinder is possibly a better option. It's a bit like a small angle grinder that uses diamond impregnated pads to prepare and polish flat surfaces on rocks, Have a look on Aliexpress for some options. Don't go for the cheapest, they have cheap crap and more expensive but quite good tools.
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 6, 2020 6:51:34 GMT -5
My first question is what are you trying to cut and polish? Are you going to make cabochons or are you just going to face polish your rocks for specimens?
The answer to that will help us help you decide what you need.
Most of my rocks are calcites, jaspers and agates, flints - everything what I found as interesting. I need only flat polished surface. I will start selling rocks to collectors, later maybe some cabachons, but it's distant future - for now only flat polished surface. |
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 6, 2020 6:58:45 GMT -5
Question 1, Is this the right place for this post? Probably not the best, but it will do. To help you. Our questions to you. Do you have a saw? Are the rocks you want to polish already cut and have a flat surface, or slabs, or are they just lumps of rock? What market are you aiming for, cut stones for jewellery, or specimen stones with a polished surface? The Mohs 3 rocks what are they? Calcite and Marble polish nicely, some of the other sedimentary rocks wont. A vibrating lap does only one job, that is to grind and polish a face on an already flat sawn rock, it is not a quick process and will take days to get a rock to the stage where it is ready to polish. It is not very good at doing thin slabs of rock. If the rock doesn't already have a flat surface it will not make one. It uses loose Silicon Carbide grit and water to do the job and can be messy. A wet grinder is possibly a better option. It's a bit like a small angle grinder that uses diamond impregnated pads to prepare and polish flat surfaces on rocks, Have a look on Aliexpress for some options. Don't go for the cheapest, they have cheap crap and more expensive but quite good tools. I have really small saw, but it isn't a problem, because I have a lot of stonemasons near - with some tips most of it can cut minerals without damaging it. Most of my rocks have flat surface, some of it are flat so it will behave like slabs. I want to create rocks with flat polished surface for collectors. Maybe in future I'll start making cabochons, but it's distant future. Most of my soft rocks are calcites and septarians with ankerite, calcite and aragonite, I have also some baryte. In future I'll collect some pyrites and marcasites. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Aug 6, 2020 8:58:47 GMT -5
Considering what you would like to do, I think paul's suggestion of a wet grinder would be your best and most economical option for now. You can always get other equipment if and when you decide you need it, but the wet grinder will get the job done for you. |
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 6, 2020 16:25:35 GMT -5
Considering what you would like to do, I think paul 's suggestion of a wet grinder would be your best and most economical option for now. You can always get other equipment if and when you decide you need it, but the wet grinder will get the job done for you. I don't really know... but wait. What is we grinder? From my understanding of the language it's wet and it's grinding something. But what is this? |
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Post by pauls on Aug 6, 2020 17:37:34 GMT -5
Here you go polaszko. www.ebay.com/itm/Wet-Polisher-Granite-Marble-Concrete-Terrazzo-Polishing-Pad-9-1-countertop-edge/332229569909?hash=item4d5a6ced75:g:ZKoAAOSw2gxYwnEnIt is up to you what you decide to buy, but one of these can polish a slab or even a domed area on a rock in about half an hour. I am not recommending this particular one it is just the first one I found so is just an example. You could also have a look around Aliexpress in China, they have them as well. If you do decide to get one I would recommend getting a earth leakage protection circuit breaker fitted so you don't electrocute yourself. (Lots of water and electricity where you are working.) Your Calcites and septarians will probably polish, it really depends on the actual rock. |
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 6, 2020 17:43:25 GMT -5
Considering what you would like to do, I think paul 's suggestion of a wet grinder would be your best and most economical option for now. You can always get other equipment if and when you decide you need it, but the wet grinder will get the job done for you. I don't really know... but wait. What is we grinder? From my understanding of the language it's wet and it's grinding something. But what is this? When grinding a rock with an abrasive wheel it needs to be kept wet to avoid over heating and dust. A bench grinder that would be used to sharpen a tool will not work. It needs to be a lapidary arbor with either a water drip or water geyser. The grinding is to produce a smooth shape and/or a dome. |
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 6, 2020 18:15:48 GMT -5
No that's not good solution for me. Yes it's probably much cheaper, but some of my rocks are just to small to polish it on something like that, it also don't look very safe and grinding rocks will take a lot of time (as I said I have a lot of rocks). Also flat surface wouldn't be perfectly flat. Stonemasons near me use that technice and surface of rock is a bit undulating. If I need to spend money I'll buy something, that I can use for years without willingness to change machines.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Aug 6, 2020 21:21:42 GMT -5
Ok, so it looks like a flat lap is what you'll be needing.
If you're a handy person, take a look at the DIY Lapidary Equipment page and see if there's anything there that floats your boat. |
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 7, 2020 7:26:32 GMT -5
Ok, so it looks like a flat lap is what you'll be needing.
If you're a handy person, take a look at the DIY Lapidary Equipment page and see if there's anything there that floats your boat. For sure I'll read this, but... well usually when I built something it breaks even before I builded it. Making equipment usually annoys me, because I can't find good parts, I broke something, something don't work as well as I thought and other problems do not end. Some people likes that problems, but I don't belong to that group. Also creating things is reserved to people that use familiar machines and have experience with it. Even if I build something it will probably break in first use. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Aug 7, 2020 8:06:46 GMT -5
You can always buy one, but they are pricey. Maybe a used one from somewhere in Europe?  |
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,718 
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Post by Fossilman on Aug 7, 2020 10:40:25 GMT -5
Just my thoughts, I sell the raw material and let the customers do what they want to the rocks once they buy them... Gives you time to gather up funds to buy equipment..
Later on down the road you can start making slabs, cabs and wraps (Polished) to sell....
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 7, 2020 15:48:50 GMT -5
Just my thoughts, I sell the raw material and let the customers do what they want to the rocks once they buy them... Gives you time to gather up funds to buy equipment.. Later on down the road you can start making slabs, cabs and wraps (Polished) to sell.... I'll do that, but it's very slow process - as I said in my country there is really small demand for raw rocks. Also soon USD will be more expansive. Now I have enough money to buy 12 or even 16" vibra lap. But I still don't know is it good machine for me. |
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Post by pauls on Aug 8, 2020 16:17:42 GMT -5
polaszco, Vibrating laps need the weight of the rock to hold them down onto the moving lap plate, small or thin pieces lack the weight to effectively hold them down against the grit, you need to find a way to attach lead weights to your rocks. Uneven rocks with more weight on one side than the other will grind on the heavy side but not on the light side, so you will end up with two faces on the flat part of your rock, one polished and one not polished. Vibe laps are also messy, slow, (several days to a week constantly on) and need to be tended regularly. A vibrating lap is not going to do your work for you. Lapidary and rock/gem polishing are very manual tasks, the only thing that is even a bit hands off is tumbling and even that is still labour intensive.
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 9, 2020 6:12:55 GMT -5
polaszco, Vibrating laps need the weight of the rock to hold them down onto the moving lap plate, small or thin pieces lack the weight to effectively hold them down against the grit, you need to find a way to attach lead weights to your rocks. Uneven rocks with more weight on one side than the other will grind on the heavy side but not on the light side, so you will end up with two faces on the flat part of your rock, one polished and one not polished. Vibe laps are also messy, slow, (several days to a week constantly on) and need to be tended regularly. A vibrating lap is not going to do your work for you. Lapidary and rock/gem polishing are very manual tasks, the only thing that is even a bit hands off is tumbling and even that is still labour intensive. I need to perfectly balance rock, or just putting some lead on lighter side will help? |
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polaszko
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2020
Posts: 58
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Post by polaszko on Aug 15, 2020 15:15:43 GMT -5
Ok change of plans - I found somebody who can build 15" rotating lap for no more than 500 USD - so probably I'll order one. Now I need to find some tutorials for rotating laps, but it isn't a problem with this forum.
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