jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
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Post by jamesp on Jun 13, 2021 9:53:39 GMT -5
For what it is worth, a souped up Lot-O in progress. A work in slow progress. WISP New DC motor retrofitted to original motor mount. Original motor: fixed 3000 rpm, dual output shafts New motor: Variable speed 12 to 24 volt, 4000 to 6000 rpm, high torque, same dual output shafts Theory is to about double rpm to about double vibration rate and increase power/torque. And to reduce counterweight for shorter vibration travel(amplitude) for a more gentle action and likely less spring deflection. Been busy, have not completed. Hard part is done.  |
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Jun 13, 2021 10:32:22 GMT -5
. The Industrial model used for rock tumbling will have a blue band on the bowl, while the lighter duty model has a yellow band.[/quote]
Yes, I saw that they have different colored bands- but the band had been taken off of this one! Ugh!
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 13, 2021 10:49:40 GMT -5
. The Industrial model used for rock tumbling will have a blue band on the bowl, while the lighter duty model has a yellow band. I have a UV-18, the bowl has the yellow band and it is the Standard model. Been using it to run 95% of my polish runs with no issues for over 3 years now. It's definitely a Standard version as I compared to the pictures online. I suppose if I would have been running other non-polish stages it would not have held up. Bought it used so do not know how many years it had been used before me. I do need to replace the motor as the bearings are starting to go. Come to think of it all my lapidary equipment was acquired used. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 11:43:21 GMT -5
For what it is worth, a souped up Lot-O in progress. A work in slow progress. WISP New DC motor retrofitted to original motor mount. Original motor: fixed 3000 rpm, dual output shafts New motor: Variable speed 12 to 24 volt, 4000 to 6000 rpm, high torque, same dual output shafts Theory is to about double rpm to about double vibration rate and increase power/torque. And to reduce counterweight for shorter vibration travel(amplitude) for a more gentle action and likely less spring deflection. Been busy, have not completed. Hard part is done. Great concept! Hope you get a chance to finish it, though I completely relate to having more than a few "WISP's" at any given time. Completely agree about the Lot-O not liking the thicker slurries. Ours is pretty much dialed in at this point and the only issues we are having are related to our own biases which were largely formed by starting with the UV-10 first. Turns out they are more different than I would have guessed. We like to tumble larger stones and use thicker slurries for some of the reasons you listed. Our habits/preferences evolved because the UV-10 is capable of handling as many of the larger rocks that you can fit into it without doing damage to one another, the additional clockwise movement in the bowl seems to really help with that. We have also heavily relied on heavier slurries to add a layer of protection to these larger rocks and on softer materials and the UV has no problem circulating these batches. This is no way a knock on the Lot-O as it does what it was designed for very well. We just have to use a different approach than what we are used to. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 11:53:40 GMT -5
. The Industrial model used for rock tumbling will have a blue band on the bowl, while the lighter duty model has a yellow band. I have a UV-18, the bowl has the yellow band and it is the Standard model. Been using it to run 95% of my polish runs with no issues for over 3 years now. It's definitely a Standard version as I compared to the pictures online. I suppose if I would have been running other non-polish stages it would not have held up. Bought it used so do not know how many years it had been used before me. I do need to replace the motor as the bearings are starting to go. Come to think of it all my lapidary equipment was acquired used. When I purchased the UV-10 I was told from the dealer that the difference was all in the base (including motor, springs, etc.) and that all of the bowls were the same with the exception of the stripe color. To further add confusion, it appears that all UV-45's have a bowl with a yellow stripe  . Have you had any success tracking down a motor yet? |
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 13, 2021 12:13:56 GMT -5
I have a UV-18, the bowl has the yellow band and it is the Standard model. Been using it to run 95% of my polish runs with no issues for over 3 years now. It's definitely a Standard version as I compared to the pictures online. I suppose if I would have been running other non-polish stages it would not have held up. Bought it used so do not know how many years it had been used before me. I do need to replace the motor as the bearings are starting to go. Come to think of it all my lapidary equipment was acquired used. When I purchased the UV-10 I was told from the dealer that the difference was all in the base (including motor, springs, etc.) and that all of the bowls were the same with the exception of the stripe color. To further add confusion, it appears that all UV-45's have a bowl with a yellow stripe  . Have you had any success tracking down a motor yet? Yes, I found a motor and ordered it on Friday. I called the company who makes Thumlers, Tru-Square Metal products. www.thumlerstumbler.com/The gentleman said that they have changed motors and the plate will need to be re-drilled to accommodate the new motors. A template for the new holes will accompany the motor. The cost was just under a $100, which happens to be what I paid for the used machine over 3 years ago. Any machine that has a counter-weight attached directly to the motor shaft will need to have motor eventually replaced. Both my Vib-Lap and the UV-18 fall into this category. Finding a motor with a beefed up bearing assembly on the drive shaft will delay the failure. In-direct drives are a much better design for counter-weight(vibration) equipment. It's on "The List" to have an old spare 20" Vib-Lap I picked up for free converted to indirect drive. |
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jun 13, 2021 12:19:38 GMT -5
Good to hear you're happier with that machine, now that you've accepted, through you're own intervention, it's limitations and strengths......."This is no way a knock on the Lot-O as it does what it was designed for very well. We just have to use a different approach than what we are used to."..........Pretty much the same conclusion 99% of the Lot-O owners I've interacted with and those who I have followed here at RTH, have surmised........Happy tumbling.
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 12:29:05 GMT -5
When I purchased the UV-10 I was told from the dealer that the difference was all in the base (including motor, springs, etc.) and that all of the bowls were the same with the exception of the stripe color. To further add confusion, it appears that all UV-45's have a bowl with a yellow stripe . Have you had any success tracking down a motor yet? Yes, I found a motor and ordered it on Friday. I called the company who makes Thumlers, Tru-Square Metal products. www.thumlerstumbler.com/The gentleman said that they have changed motors and the plate will need to be re-drilled to accommodate the new motors. A template for the new holes will accompany the motor. The cost was just under a $100, which happens to be what I paid for the used machine over 3 years ago. Any machine that has a counter-weight attached directly to the motor shaft will need to have motor eventually replaced. Both my Vib-Lap and the UV-18 fall into this category. Finding a motor with a beefed up bearing assembly on the drive shaft will delay the failure. In-direct drives are a much better design for counter-weight(vibration) equipment. It's on "The List" to have an old spare 20" Vib-Lap I picked up for free converted to indirect drive. That was a pretty good great deal for just a hundred bucks! |
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 13, 2021 12:59:01 GMT -5
Yes, I found a motor and ordered it on Friday. I called the company who makes Thumlers, Tru-Square Metal products. www.thumlerstumbler.com/The gentleman said that they have changed motors and the plate will need to be re-drilled to accommodate the new motors. A template for the new holes will accompany the motor. The cost was just under a $100, which happens to be what I paid for the used machine over 3 years ago. Any machine that has a counter-weight attached directly to the motor shaft will need to have motor eventually replaced. Both my Vib-Lap and the UV-18 fall into this category. Finding a motor with a beefed up bearing assembly on the drive shaft will delay the failure. In-direct drives are a much better design for counter-weight(vibration) equipment. It's on "The List" to have an old spare 20" Vib-Lap I picked up for free converted to indirect drive. That was a pretty good great deal for just a hundred bucks! My theory on acquiring rocks or equipment, it has to be a great deal or I am not buying. Patience to wait for, and the luck to find those great deals are key. "beware the fury of a patient man" |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 13:57:12 GMT -5
That was a pretty good great deal for just a hundred bucks! My theory on acquiring rocks or equipment, it has to be a great deal or I am not buying. Patience to wait for, and the luck to find those great deals are key. "beware the fury of a patient man" When it comes to this hobby I wished we lived somewhere else. I have never seen anything worthy come up on Craigslist, etc. around here and I don't mind doing some serious rehab. Although I know I am not alone I have never met anyone else in our area that is involved at all in lapidary. The closest I got was one of my guys at work telling me that his son had a tumbler for a while twenty years ago. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
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Post by jamesp on Jun 13, 2021 13:57:31 GMT -5
Subtle changes in vibration can have an exponential effect on damaging the tumbles.
Most vibes vibrate at about 3000 reversals per minute or 50 reversals per second.
If the vibration distance is(as an example) 2mm verses 1mm the hopper travels twice the distance and must reverse with much more deceleration and acceleration at reversal. Metal vibes typically have longer vibration travel than rock vibes because metals can handle more violent high reversal accel/decel rates without getting bruised.
Thicker slurries dampen vibration serving similar as soft or stiff shocks on a car.
It is possible for a thick slurry to shorten the vibration distance from say 2mm to 1mm. or skip vibrations and reduce vibration to 3000/sec to 1500/sec or somewhere in between.
Adding weight to the hopper can also shorten the vibration travel or can also reduce vibs/sec to a lower rate.
Switching to softer springs may increase vibration travel or cause the machine to skip every other vibration and also reduce the actual vibration at the hopper from 3000/sec to 1500/sec or somewhere in between.
Just saying vibration reactions due to changes is usually crazy complicated.
Moving the location of the pegs on a Lot-O is changing the pivot point location (I believe) and also possibly stiffening the spring. My opinion anyway, others may have a more accurate idea.
Most vibration systems have a fixed mass(hopper w/rocks), a fixed excitation force(rotating off-balance), damper(s), spring(s).
Some vibration is straight and travels back and forth in a straight line. Most have an oval or angular mixed sort of motion.
Bowl vibes probably have the most complicated path, likely 3 dimensional. The Lot-O may be close to 2 dimensional.
In all cases the vibration travel distance and final hopper frequency is tricky to measure without a vibration analyzer.
The hopper travel may be tiny like .3mm and the hopper frequency of 500/sec to 3000/sec is about impossible to count unless a sophisticated device is used.
The Vibrasonic has adjustable counterweights with a scale of 0 to 5. Set at about 1 for a 12 pound hopper, about 3 for a 35 pound hopper and apparently setting 5 will shake a 100 pound hopper. If you set the counterweights at 3 for a 12 pound hopper the results will be 12 pounds of the most bruised agates imaginable unless possibly a super thick slurry is added. So this is the reason a Vibrasonic can run hoppers from 8 to 12 to 35 to 100 pounds.
The bruises at setting 3 for a 12 pound hopper causes the vibration distance to seem to double or triple. It is very apparent by listening to the agates they are getting the crap beat out of them.
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