saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on May 27, 2021 21:28:52 GMT -5
saxplayer , how long do you run the second phase if you use 500 AO? I've heard 2 days and 3 days. I'm only on my second Lot-O batch, and I started 500 AO today. Honestly, I haven't found a discernable difference at 2 vs 3 days. I run AO 500 until the clean rock is obviously starting to shine on its own, then its ready for polish. |
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Post by aDave on May 27, 2021 21:58:17 GMT -5
Thanks Rob! I have read that thread in the past but did not remember that it was aDave in particular. I would say my experiences have been very similar to his. It is a little more of a pain to move the dowel now as they use a brad nailer to secure the dowel first and then dollop the adhesive (feels like hot glue to me) on top of it. In order to pry the dowel loose the frame has to be unscrewed from the base. Not the end of the world but more than some would want to deal with. At the very least it is a good time to check the springs and verify the fasteners are tight. <SNIP> I'll be curious to see what headway you make. In all honesty, I've not had any batches going for a long time now, as I've been sidetracked with other issues. So, I've not really done anything with the Lot-O since I made that last adjustment. I'll be staying tuned. |
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Post by Rockindad on May 28, 2021 18:00:49 GMT -5
Thanks Rob! I have read that thread in the past but did not remember that it was aDave in particular. I would say my experiences have been very similar to his. It is a little more of a pain to move the dowel now as they use a brad nailer to secure the dowel first and then dollop the adhesive (feels like hot glue to me) on top of it. In order to pry the dowel loose the frame has to be unscrewed from the base. Not the end of the world but more than some would want to deal with. At the very least it is a good time to check the springs and verify the fasteners are tight. <SNIP> I'll be curious to see what headway you make. In all honesty, I've not had any batches going for a long time now, as I've been sidetracked with other issues. So, I've not really done anything with the Lot-O since I made that last adjustment. I'll be staying tuned. Still playing around with the dowel location a bit but we are miles ahead of where we started. The current test batch is going into polish tomorrow, 120/220SiC and 500AO have both run fine, so am optimistic. Want to run a load after that to find the single spot for the tuning bar that works equally well for all stages. Hope all is well Dave. |
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Post by aDave on May 28, 2021 23:28:00 GMT -5
I'll be curious to see what headway you make. In all honesty, I've not had any batches going for a long time now, as I've been sidetracked with other issues. So, I've not really done anything with the Lot-O since I made that last adjustment. I'll be staying tuned. Still playing around with the dowel location a bit but we are miles ahead of where we started. The current test batch is going into polish tomorrow, 120/220SiC and 500AO have both run fine, so am optimistic. Want to run a load after that to find the single spot for the tuning bar that works equally well for all stages. Hope all is well Dave. That sounds great, and I'm glad it's working out for you thus far. I found it frustrating when I couldn't get stuff to circulate at the polish stage (water only) until I added polish. That didn't last too long, since as soon as the polish was gone, no movement. I'm sure you'll find the sweet spot. I'm enjoying your thread, so thanks. |
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 31, 2021 19:08:14 GMT -5
I just read the original post, but none of the responses. I'm heading out of town in a few minutes, so all I have time for is to post this thread. Hopefully you're on your way to figuring this out. aDave's Lot-O Tuning ProblemThanks Rob! I have read that thread in the past but did not remember that it was aDave in particular. I would say my experiences have been very similar to his. It is a little more of a pain to move the dowel now as they use a brad nailer to secure the dowel first and then dollop the adhesive (feels like hot glue to me) on top of it. In order to pry the dowel loose the frame has to be unscrewed from the base. Not the end of the world but more than some would want to deal with. At the very least it is a good time to check the springs and verify the fasteners are tight. Interestingly I spoke to a nice lady at Lot-O/Belt Inc. today (supposed to be getting a call from Mr. Calway on Tuesday). In no uncertain terms she told me I was wrong in saying the action improved by moving the dowel towards the base and that it should be "way back towards the motor". When I tried to explain to her that when I was using it as set up from them and said "no matter my moisture level the grit and moisture would settle to the bottom of the barrel due to a lack of circulation preventing the formation of a slurry" she jumped on that and replied "you should never have a slurry in the Lot-O". That is when I asked when Mr. Calway would be available. Actually it was a very polite conversation, just not what I was looking for. She did tell me that every Lot-O is run for twenty minutes to verify proper operation but did not know any particulars (such as what is actually in the barrels for testing: dry media, rocks with grit, etc.) as she is more in sales, etc. Very much looking forward to having a respectful and productive discussion with Mr. Calway, I'd really like to pick his brain on a few things if he is willing to talk. Despite the title of this thread I am not looking to bash any product. I paid good money for it and really hope to like it as much or even more than our UV-10. The title was nothing but expressing the frustration I was having at the time. I have no doubt we are on the right track now. That's interesting that she was so defensive. It seems like there are a lot more complaints about the Lot-O in the past few years. I have nothing but good luck with mine. I just replaced the motor after ten years of use, but I can't complain about that. It still runs great with the new motor. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 1, 2021 12:11:47 GMT -5
Thanks Rob! I have read that thread in the past but did not remember that it was aDave in particular. I would say my experiences have been very similar to his. It is a little more of a pain to move the dowel now as they use a brad nailer to secure the dowel first and then dollop the adhesive (feels like hot glue to me) on top of it. In order to pry the dowel loose the frame has to be unscrewed from the base. Not the end of the world but more than some would want to deal with. At the very least it is a good time to check the springs and verify the fasteners are tight. Interestingly I spoke to a nice lady at Lot-O/Belt Inc. today (supposed to be getting a call from Mr. Calway on Tuesday). In no uncertain terms she told me I was wrong in saying the action improved by moving the dowel towards the base and that it should be "way back towards the motor". When I tried to explain to her that when I was using it as set up from them and said "no matter my moisture level the grit and moisture would settle to the bottom of the barrel due to a lack of circulation preventing the formation of a slurry" she jumped on that and replied "you should never have a slurry in the Lot-O". That is when I asked when Mr. Calway would be available. Actually it was a very polite conversation, just not what I was looking for. She did tell me that every Lot-O is run for twenty minutes to verify proper operation but did not know any particulars (such as what is actually in the barrels for testing: dry media, rocks with grit, etc.) as she is more in sales, etc. Very much looking forward to having a respectful and productive discussion with Mr. Calway, I'd really like to pick his brain on a few things if he is willing to talk. Despite the title of this thread I am not looking to bash any product. I paid good money for it and really hope to like it as much or even more than our UV-10. The title was nothing but expressing the frustration I was having at the time. I have no doubt we are on the right track now. That's interesting that she was so defensive. It seems like there are a lot more complaints about the Lot-O in the past few years. I have nothing but good luck with mine. I just replaced the motor after ten years of use, but I can't complain about that. It still runs great with the new motor. I would say she was “experienced” and knew what she was supposed to say. Ten years!?! That’s a lot of miles for a motor subject to the uneven forces of the weights on the shafts, fantastic! |
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aeronautee
starting to shine!
Member since September 2011
Posts: 25
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Post by aeronautee on Jun 10, 2021 20:39:04 GMT -5
Rockindad, did your conversation with Mr. Calway offer any insight? I'm having the same problem - my first batch, run per Rob's recipe in one of his videos, turned out beautifully; subsequent batches have bogged down with thick mud in the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if some of the Lot-Os need retuning after they "settle in" with use. I'm jamming the barrel down in the frame until the stub on the underside bottoms out on the base; maybe it should free-float?
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325 
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Post by standles on Jun 11, 2021 8:55:32 GMT -5
Rockindad , did your conversation with Mr. Calway offer any insight? I'm having the same problem - my first batch, run per Rob's recipe in one of his videos, turned out beautifully; subsequent batches have bogged down with thick mud in the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if some of the Lot-Os need retuning after they "settle in" with use. I'm jamming the barrel down in the frame until the stub on the underside bottoms out on the base; maybe it should free-float? The stub should not be bottomed out and doing so dampens the vibration. Forcing the barrel into the frame does not yield more action. S firm push into the top frame is all that is needed. Allyou are trying to do is get enough push to secure it into the barrel holder. If you want more action then it is messing with the weights or adjusting the dowel rod. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 11, 2021 12:22:19 GMT -5
Rockindad , did your conversation with Mr. Calway offer any insight? I'm having the same problem - my first batch, run per Rob's recipe in one of his videos, turned out beautifully; subsequent batches have bogged down with thick mud in the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if some of the Lot-Os need retuning after they "settle in" with use. I'm jamming the barrel down in the frame until the stub on the underside bottoms out on the base; maybe it should free-float? The call never came. I gave it a week and then followed up with an email that was also ignored so I do not have much hope for a response at this point. I only set my barrel in until slightly snug and do not force it. If you had a successful batch previously I would check the following: -The weights in the fans are aligned -Make sure all of the hardware is tight on the frame, springs, etc. -Check to verify none of the springs are broken -Make sure the frame is intact (no broken spotwelds) If you still feel it may be the location of the tuning bar you can reference this thread: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/95487/updated-design-adjustable-dowel-systemMoving the tuning bar made a huge difference for us. I intend to record a couple of videos to show the difference in the action between where the tuning bar was set from the manufacturer and where we ended up putting it. Need to finish the current load first though. |
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,717
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 11, 2021 12:34:49 GMT -5
Hopefully you will get it dialed in.... I'm buying a Lot-O, but it will only be used for the polish stages of Obsidian... Have a buddy close by that has three of them, his recipes seem to be doing great.
He also has a few bad rolls once in awhile too..
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Post by rockhoundingwithkids on Jun 11, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -5
Is your machine anchored down as suggested? We initially had a similar issue as we were in a hurry to get it going and couldn't get the motion correct. Once it was anchored to a heavier block it's been great. I don't know if it's just meant to keep it from wandering but it did seem to help keep the vibration concentrated.
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aeronautee
starting to shine!
Member since September 2011
Posts: 25
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Post by aeronautee on Jun 11, 2021 21:05:24 GMT -5
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Jun 11, 2021 21:40:15 GMT -5
Rockindad , did your conversation with Mr. Calway offer any insight? I'm having the same problem - my first batch, run per Rob's recipe in one of his videos, turned out beautifully; subsequent batches have bogged down with thick mud in the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if some of the Lot-Os need retuning after they "settle in" with use. I'm jamming the barrel down in the frame until the stub on the underside bottoms out on the base; maybe it should free-float? The call never came. I gave it a week and then followed up with an email that was also ignored so I do not have much hope for a response at this point. I only set my barrel in until slightly snug and do not force it. If you had a successful batch previously I would check the following: -The weights in the fans are aligned -Make sure all of the hardware is tight on the frame, springs, etc. -Check to verify none of the springs are broken -Make sure the frame is intact (no broken spotwelds) If you still feel it may be the location of the tuning bar you can reference this thread: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/95487/updated-design-adjustable-dowel-systemMoving the tuning bar made a huge difference for us. I intend to record a couple of videos to show the difference in the action between where the tuning bar was set from the manufacturer and where we ended up putting it. Need to finish the current load first though. Sorry to hear there was no call ultimately. I guess I'm not surprised. I have a lot-o, have had a lot of great success with it along with great let-downs. Based on customer service alone, I will NOT recommend it to others going forward. The manufacturer/owner of lot-o should be able to hear the "hard core" rock tumblers of the world in our musings here and if they can't come to the conclusion that it would be worthwhile to figure this out and offer us some kind of suggestion or fix - then I won't be offering to help their future business either. How it is in my mind. |
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Jun 12, 2021 8:01:16 GMT -5
Hey, Rockindad if you ever develop and sell a vibe tumbler, I would definitely buy it!  . I did recently buy a UV-10 off an ebay seller. BUT then I realized it was not the one that is made for tumbling rocks! Fortunately, the seller had a good return policy. But then when he got the tumbler back, he listed it under Lapidary Equipment on ebay AGAIN! |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
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Post by jamesp on Jun 12, 2021 12:29:10 GMT -5
For what it's worth, my Lot-O was purchased 5 years ago and I may have run a dozen batches with no issues except a broken spring.
A dozen batches of glass with AO 220 and AO 500 and AO polish. Exceptional polishes every time.
I used sugar with the 220 and 500, Borax for the polish step.
Sorry to hear people are having problems.
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Post by broseph82 on Jun 12, 2021 20:46:17 GMT -5
Rockindad The Minisonic speed adjustor is great, the only thing is that even at full speed it take a little extra time to polish compared to the Lot-O. In me experience it takes around 2 days longer on polish than Lot-O to get the same shine.
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 6:24:16 GMT -5
Hey, Rockindad if you ever develop and sell a vibe tumbler, I would definitely buy it! . I did recently buy a UV-10 off an ebay seller. BUT then I realized it was not the one that is made for tumbling rocks! Fortunately, the seller had a good return policy. But then when he got the tumbler back, he listed it under Lapidary Equipment on ebay AGAIN! Haha, no plans to at the moment. The only reason I messed around with this is I would rather fix something than lose time by sending it back, though it does let the manufacturer off the hook, and I'm sure void any warranty. That is frustrating about the UV-10, both models do look very similar. Add into the mix if you have someone that is not knowledgeable (or just dishonest) about what they are selling and it is even harder. Best to go through a dealer of lapidary goods to make sure you get the right one. The Industrial model used for rock tumbling will have a blue band on the bowl, while the lighter duty model has a yellow band. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 6:34:03 GMT -5
Rockindad The Minisonic speed adjustor is great, the only thing is that even at full speed it take a little extra time to polish compared to the Lot-O. In me experience it takes around 2 days longer on polish than Lot-O to get the same shine. Thanks for the input! Part of the fun I have in the hobby is the gear itself. I like to study and understand how the different machines work and I find the Mini-Sonic interesting just based on how it operates. In my experience with it so far it is clear that the efficiency of the Lot-O would be hard to beat. |
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 13, 2021 6:49:34 GMT -5
For what it's worth, my Lot-O was purchased 5 years ago and I may have run a dozen batches with no issues except a broken spring. A dozen batches of glass with AO 220 and AO 500 and AO polish. Exceptional polishes every time. I used sugar with the 220 and 500, Borax for the polish step. Sorry to hear people are having problems. I thought I remembered reading posts from back a bit that you had a Lot-O. Did you give it up for capacity reasons when you got your monster vibe? The Lot-O is no doubt a very capable machine. Our first test run still came out with a decent polish even though the action was not what it should have been. Not to mention the amount of success stories on this board alone. It was frustrating for me but with a bit of cursing and homemade engineering it's all good, that's not for everyone though. Still not sure about where this is going to fit in our lineup as we are tending to tumble larger rocks that the Lot-O does not like, not more than one at a time anyways. May keep it for the pendants and smaller stuff. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
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Post by jamesp on Jun 13, 2021 8:54:05 GMT -5
I bought the Lot-O after modifying a Vibrasonic Rockindad. Out of curiosity to compare the two. I found these two vibes to have their own 'user friendly' basic operating range. And they are very different. The short coming of the Lot-O is that it is under powered for thick slurries. A thick slurry easily bogs it down. Meaning that is losses travel distance, or that each vibration travels less distance. Well, it only has a 1/20 hp/3000rpm motor to vibrate 4 pounds of rock. The Vibrasonic vibrates 8 pounds of rock and albeit a heavier hopper but it has a 1/3 hp/3450rpm motor which is over 6 times more horsepower and probably 30 times more torque driving a precision heavy duty counterbalance shaft geared down to 3000rpm in ball bearings. The power to maintain vibration 'travel distance' is there even with super thick slurry. The Vibrasonic can handle a 50 pound hopper so it is not bogged down much by a real thick slurry in a 'small' 8 pound hopper. Then the question of the merit of thick slurries comes up. All I can say is my experience shows that a thick sticky slurry speeds up the abrasive process and abrasive breakdown many times yet prevents damaging bouncing and rattling between the tumbles. Because the thick sticky slurry pulls or sucks the tumbles into each other greatly increasing the grinding forces between the tumbles. In the case of a powerful vibe that easily overcomes the thickest slurry and at same time delivers optimum vibration travel to the tumbles the outcome is super nice polishes done quickly. i.e. sanding with sand paper with 1 pound of rubbing force or 20 pounds of rubbing force - which way will sand faster and wear the sand paper out quicker ? I also purchased this cheap hand held vibration analyzer on EBAY.  I have not used it yet as I have not been tumbling of recent. Not to mention it is not exactly user friendly but for $100 to be expected.. It should give fairly accurate frequency and vibration displacement numbers. May even show damaging harmonics or superimposed vibrations(like 2 waves coupled together on the beach that make a much taller wave). By the way I removed the twin shaft 3000rpm motor on the Lot-O and have mounted an equally sized twin shaft 5500rpm DC motor with a variable speed controller. Project also not complete but just need a bit more work to complete.I should post a photo. I have not forgotten glass... |
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. I did recently buy a UV-10 off an ebay seller. BUT then I realized it was not the one that is made for tumbling rocks! Fortunately, the seller had a good return policy. But then when he got the tumbler back, he listed it under Lapidary Equipment on ebay AGAIN! 
