|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 24, 2021 18:01:31 GMT -5
So with all of the screwing around we have been doing with the new Lot-O recently I was thinking that if I just made this this infinitely adjustable (within its capabilities) it would save a lot of headaches and just may come in handy down the road. The first step was finding the optimum location for the dowel. After breaking it free we did that last night and temporarily secured it with a couple of screws on either side of the dowel to trap it. We let it go overnight and it was still going strong, had to spritz it a few times to thin out the slurry for the day until we could get back to it, about 12 hours. Thought about it at work and decided if we had indeed found our spot we would do something a bit more permanent. All was good, thick like it should be and able to be thinned out a bit without the slurry running off to the bottom. Decided instead of fastening the dowel in the sweet spot for now to rummage through the shop/garage to see what I could come up with to make an adjustable system. Not looking for pretty (already have a wife for that  ) just functional. What I gathered: 1-3/8" wood dowel, 8" long, threaded into each coupling 1/2" 2-3/8" all-thread, about 12" 2-3/8" rod couplings 4 each-3/8" nuts and washers 1-2x2x1/4 angle iron, 14" long -wood screws, but only because this is mounted to my workbench temporarily I realize most people are not going to have all of this on hand but there are many different ways this could be accomplished if you are interested. A quick visit to a home improvement store and you could come up with twenty alternative builds. Originally I was going to bend a squared off "U" shape out of the all-thread and run that under the springs but I just happened to have a 3/8" dowel on hand and thought this might be a little easier on the springs of the Lot-O. Though using the U-shaped all-thread would eliminate the dowel and rod couplings. The angle is way overkill but it was the first piece I saw. A few pictures:    Just playing with it for now. The important thing is that the machine is running properly now. Thinking this may have some possibilities. Running a more aggressive coarse stage and backing it off a bit for polish/sensitive materials..........Coupling this with various slurry recipes/adjustments should lead to a lot of flexibility. Time will tell. |
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on May 24, 2021 22:10:10 GMT -5
Hmm this is quite interesting. I’m going to need your help with step by step modification instructions if this works out!
I’m a dummy when it comes to building things.
I love my lot o and hate it at the same time. Would prefer to be a more love love relationship moving forward.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,620
|
Post by jamesp on May 25, 2021 4:57:47 GMT -5
Nice setup. It takes lot of patience to modify a vibe Rockindad being that it takes a while to run a load thru it to know if polish and polish times improve. Polish quality seems to define a vibe. The most delicate step. I dabbled with a Vibrasonic. To speed up tests I ran pre-polished and polished rocks to see if my modifications removed the polish or kept it the same or improved it. Much easier to remove than to improve lol. When done with testing with rocks the rocks were replaced with polished glass like marbles, beads, mosaic art glass, whatever. The glass was a trickier subject. All test runs were done with smaller size 3/4" to 1" tumbles and a conservative 40 to 50% quartz pea gravel media. And slurry additive. |
|
irlcjrohr
starting to spend too much on rocks
If it does not melt, polish it.
Member since April 2020
Posts: 123
|
Post by irlcjrohr on May 25, 2021 8:16:06 GMT -5
Nicely done Rockindad. I am new with the lot-o vib. How dose moving the dowel change the behavior of the tumble? |
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -5
Nicely done Rockindad . I am new with the lot-o vib. How dose moving the dowel change the behavior of the tumble? Where the dowel is in the pictures (towards the frame) provides for more aggressive action, moving the dowel towards the fans slows the action. The problem we had initially was that the dowel was set too far towards the fans so that it could not create a proper slurry, particularly in 120/220SiC. It did however do a bit better with AO grits/polish, thus the idea to make it adjustable. I checked it this morning before work and it is still running well (been about 40 hours or so) so am convinced that issue is solved. |
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on May 25, 2021 9:39:56 GMT -5
Nicely done Rockindad . I am new with the lot-o vib. How dose moving the dowel change the behavior of the tumble? Where the dowel is in the pictures (towards the frame) provides for more aggressive action, moving the dowel towards the fans slows the action. The problem we had initially was that the dowel was set too far towards the fans so that it could not create a proper slurry, particularly in 120/220SiC. It did however do a bit better with AO grits/polish, thus the idea to make it adjustable. I checked it this morning before work and it is still running well (been about 40 hours or so) so am convinced that issue is solved. I think the key will be to find the sweet spot, but still not make it too rough to cause bruising / spalling. That has been an issue for me as well and another reason I got the mini-sonic. I have run 2 batches through the mini-sonic now without hardly any spalling/dmg. My lot-o seems to always take my perfect rocks and make a small amount of them imperfect - despite making a fantastic shine. |
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 9:44:23 GMT -5
Nice setup. It takes lot of patience to modify a vibe Rockindad being that it takes a while to run a load thru it to know if polish and polish times improve. Polish quality seems to define a vibe. The most delicate step. I dabbled with a Vibrasonic. To speed up tests I ran pre-polished and polished rocks to see if my modifications removed the polish or kept it the same or improved it. Much easier to remove than to improve lol. When done with testing with rocks the rocks were replaced with polished glass like marbles, beads, mosaic art glass, whatever. The glass was a trickier subject. All test runs were done with smaller size 3/4" to 1" tumbles and a conservative 40 to 50% quartz pea gravel media. And slurry additive. You are reading my mind James- already been looking over finished batches to sacrifice in the name of experimentation. Not too much of a gamble I guess as they could always go into the the UV-10 if things go awry. Anticipating very good results though as there is just too much evidence as to what these machines can do. Believe I just got one that was poorly set up. |
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,620
|
Post by jamesp on May 25, 2021 10:05:48 GMT -5
Marbles have a polish that can only get worse. are cheap.
If the machine can do glass it can easily do Mohs 7.
If the marbles stay polished you got the setting whipped.
If the machine can polish glass fast it will really polish Mohs 7 fast.
In my experience a vibe that does glass without babying the load(a variety of media and slurry types) is tuned to perfection.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 10:19:38 GMT -5
Hmm this is quite interesting. I’m going to need your help with step by step modification instructions if this works out! I’m a dummy when it comes to building things. I love my lot o and hate it at the same time. Would prefer to be a more love love relationship moving forward. It works well as far as being able to control the action. Can accomplish the same thing just moving the dowel back and forth with your hands, the rest of the setup is really just to lock that dowel in place. Preliminary thinking is to run it all out in coarse phase and maybe all the way through with sturdy materials, back it off a bit with softer/less sturdy ones in AO/Polish. If you would like to try it I would be happy to send you a kit to install. I have a couple lifetimes worth of these materials, you would be doing me a favor. Just shoot me a PM. Very easy to install, only have to remove the two front spring screws and slide the assembly underneath the rear springs. Mounting the front bracket would depend on how your machine is mounted now but that would be easy enough to solve. |
|
pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
|
Post by pizzano on May 25, 2021 11:40:09 GMT -5
Nice thinking "out of the box" workmanship....... Just curious how well and flexible this fine-tuning and rod adjustment apparatus will work when not screwed/bolted down to the surface of a standing work bench.......given the machine is designed to be secured to a heavy, some-what mobile surface like a cinder block or other heavy vibration absorption material that some-what reduces/dampens the sound levels without shaking/rattling everything around it......? rocktumbler.com/tips/how-we-use-the-lot-o-tumbler/Just a note....: I personally interact with several folks who use newer, older, single and double barrel versions of this machine. None of them have it screwed/bolted down to a work bench or stationary/immovable object......? |
|
|
|
Post by broseph82 on May 25, 2021 12:27:22 GMT -5
Hmm this is quite interesting. I’m going to need your help with step by step modification instructions if this works out! I’m a dummy when it comes to building things. I love my lot o and hate it at the same time. Would prefer to be a more love love relationship moving forward. I’d suggest looking at a mini-sonic vibe tumbler. I actually like it better than the lot-o now because the speed has a control knob. The only con is that it does take a day or two extra to polish to the standards of the Lot-O (at a slower speed), but honestly I don’t mind if it means less chippage |
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 13:01:01 GMT -5
Nice thinking "out of the box" workmanship....... Just curious how well and flexible this fine-tuning and rod adjustment apparatus will work when not screwed/bolted down to the surface of a standing work bench.......given the machine is designed to be secured to a heavy, some-what mobile surface like a cinder block or other heavy vibration absorption material that some-what reduces/dampens the sound levels without shaking/rattling everything around it......? rocktumbler.com/tips/how-we-use-the-lot-o-tumbler/Just a note....: I personally interact with several folks who use newer, older, single and double barrel versions of this machine. None of them have it screwed/bolted down to a work bench or stationary/immovable object......? I have a sketch for mounting to the standard concrete block application at home, I’ll post it later. I would not recommend mounting to a bench unless it is of a rather stout construction like this one, could definitely lead to loss of action in the barrel and make a heck of a racket to boot. When we were having issues keeping it going I mounted it directly to our concrete floor just to be sure the bench mounting was not the issue- no change. That being said we will be doing a version of the block mounting as I do not like it being in a fixed place on the bench. The exposed fans would also be pretty easy to knock into so I want to be able to slide it to the back of the bench. May also move it off the bench altogether onto a stack of blocks. Pretty sure I read a post by Drummond Island Rocks (apologies if it was someone else) where he did this and it worked well. |
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 13:06:34 GMT -5
Aha, I was able to access a picture of the sketch from work. I’m sure the concrete screws could be replaced with a decent construction adhesive if one would prefer to do that. There is not much tension on the angle.  |
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 25, 2021 19:30:38 GMT -5
Marbles have a polish that can only get worse. are cheap. If the machine can do glass it can easily do Mohs 7. If the marbles stay polished you got the setting whipped. If the machine can polish glass fast it will really polish Mohs 7 fast. In my experience a vibe that does glass without babying the load(a variety of media and slurry types) is tuned to perfection. Agree that glass is a terrific litmus test for the vibe. Took a while to get it licked with the UV-10 as it is a pretty aggressive machine out of the box. Thought for sure we would have resort to mechanical modifications but finally landed on the perfect slurry, for that machine anyways. As an aside I want to let you know that you are to blame for my sons glass obsession, my fault for showing him so many of your pictures. He drools when he sees all of the patterns you have created with the kiln. We always have to have a batch going either in rotary or the vibe. Now he wants to work with the "cool glass like jamesp". Told him we have to make it first............who knows where this is going  . |
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,620
|
Post by jamesp on May 26, 2021 0:44:11 GMT -5
PM address. I'll send him some.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockindad on May 26, 2021 7:00:06 GMT -5
Small update: switched over to 500AO 16 hours ago, moved the dowel to slow down the action slightly. Slurry still developing fine.  Extending an imaginary line from the back of the Lot-O frame (red arrow) down to the platform provides a reference to locate the dowel and set the gap (blue arrow). For the 120/220 SiC the edge of the dowel was set at 0”- 1/16” from the frame. This provided for aggressive action and rapid slurry development. At 500AO the gap was increased to 1/8”- 3/16”. Will probably let it run for 2-4 days and put in polish, backing the dowel back a bit more. |
|
irlcjrohr
starting to spend too much on rocks
If it does not melt, polish it.
Member since April 2020
Posts: 123
|
Post by irlcjrohr on May 26, 2021 15:32:45 GMT -5
Nicely done Rockindad . I am new with the lot-o vib. How dose moving the dowel change the behavior of the tumble? Where the dowel is in the pictures (towards the frame) provides for more aggressive action, moving the dowel towards the fans slows the action. The problem we had initially was that the dowel was set too far towards the fans so that it could not create a proper slurry, particularly in 120/220SiC. It did however do a bit better with AO grits/polish, thus the idea to make it adjustable. I checked it this morning before work and it is still running well (been about 40 hours or so) so am convinced that issue is solved. Thank you, I will look at how mine is setup. |
|
irlcjrohr
starting to spend too much on rocks
If it does not melt, polish it.
Member since April 2020
Posts: 123
|
Post by irlcjrohr on May 26, 2021 15:35:24 GMT -5
Where the dowel is in the pictures (towards the frame) provides for more aggressive action, moving the dowel towards the fans slows the action. The problem we had initially was that the dowel was set too far towards the fans so that it could not create a proper slurry, particularly in 120/220SiC. It did however do a bit better with AO grits/polish, thus the idea to make it adjustable. I checked it this morning before work and it is still running well (been about 40 hours or so) so am convinced that issue is solved. I think the key will be to find the sweet spot, but still not make it too rough to cause bruising / spalling. That has been an issue for me as well and another reason I got the mini-sonic. I have run 2 batches through the mini-sonic now without hardly any spalling/dmg. My lot-o seems to always take my perfect rocks and make a small amount of them imperfect - despite making a fantastic shine. So far I have had no bruising or spalling with my lot-o. Just some caking on the bottom of the barrel in the 220 stage. |
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 26, 2021 17:33:40 GMT -5
I'll start by saying I really admire the ingenuity that is going into this. I have a mini-sonic as well as a few lot-o's and the thing I dislike the most about the mini-sonic is the variable speed and the thing I like the most about the lot-o is its ability to polish everything I throw at it without any tinkering. Maybe I got lucky with all of mine and maybe there are issues on some being produced right now? I think if you go back and look at the last eight years every winner of the world rock tumbling contest has used an unmodified lot-o. In my opinion variable speed just adds an endless amount of options of how to run each type of rock and each stage of the batch. Way too much work for me. The only adjustment I make is one time a day with a few squirts of water. My main lot-o has been running 12 years non stop and my recipe has not changed at all in the last 8-10 years. I think your design is great for a lot-o that needs adjusted but I would certainly hope you could get it to a final sweet spot that produces great repeatable results without needing to tinker anymore.
Chuck
|
|
saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by saxplayer on May 26, 2021 22:07:38 GMT -5
I think the key will be to find the sweet spot, but still not make it too rough to cause bruising / spalling. That has been an issue for me as well and another reason I got the mini-sonic. I have run 2 batches through the mini-sonic now without hardly any spalling/dmg. My lot-o seems to always take my perfect rocks and make a small amount of them imperfect - despite making a fantastic shine. So far I have had no bruising or spalling with my lot-o. Just some caking on the bottom of the barrel in the 220 stage. I'm jealous then! I spend an incredible amount of time on my tumbles in prep work, flaw removal etc. Almost any photo (albeit to say, of my recent most 20 or so tumbles - not my originals) of my finished tumbles that have any flaws, are courtesy of my lot-o. I can't beat the shine, but I can't elimiate spalls and chipping. It doesn't matter the mix, size variation or amount of ceramics or small perfectly round LSAs that I use to fill - it still happens. I think it is because of the poor tuning as delineated in this thread. I know what I'm doing - and I have talked to the other master tumblers here as well over the past years - and no matter if I copy their recipies identically - I continue to get problem rocks. I'm going to modify my lot-o and see what happens. I know it's the lot-o because I can get 90% of the shine with my mini-sonic despite not using it more than 3 loads now - and I have had ZERO flaws, chips or spalls. |
|
) just functional. What I gathered:
.
... to the New Guys from The ChatBox V.2 Crew