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Post by liveoak on Mar 24, 2022 13:32:05 GMT -5
Thanks Jim, the benign purpose is exactly what Tom guessed. You can understand why the power dredging is illegal- it can certainly do some serious damage to the river.
The poor newts and turtles of the world :-)
OTOH I'm sure you can find lots of cool stuff ........
Have to see what Tom can cook up to poke around .
Thanks,
Patty
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2022 6:15:58 GMT -5
Thanks Jim, the benign purpose is exactly what Tom guessed. You can understand why the power dredging is illegal- it can certainly do some serious damage to the river.
The poor newts and turtles of the world :-) OTOH I'm sure you can find lots of cool stuff ........ Have to see what Tom can cook up to poke around .
Thanks,
Patty
Well be cautious where probing in Florida because it is illegal in most aquatic systems there. The laws there have gotten unreasonably strict there and disturbing soil even by probing is prohibited in all aquatic systems in Florida except the Peace River. Of course probing then requires digging to harvest target. Perhaps other rivers than the Peace is less restricted, best to check with the local DNR office. They have also enacted laws regarding artifact removal in Florida or a permit is required, not sure. They became so strict on collecting anything in Florida I quite going there for the most part. I do have access to private lands there. I was stunned to see the condition of the Elk River in north Alabama. The trees along the river have begun to die from backing up water at the dam causing the trees to drown. Precipitation increases in recent years is the culprit. Now the river banks are caving in due to lack of vegetation to hold the banks in place at least 10 miles upstream. A once beautiful mountain river is now filled with silt and large tree deadfalls. The fisherman said it's not worth fishing any more. This is the same story in most rivers feeding TVA dammed reservoirs and Corp of Engineer's reservoirs. At least Alabama is lax on artifact collecting. Georgia and Tennessee has laws prohibiting artifact collecting at some locations but they are rarely enforced.
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Post by liveoak on Mar 25, 2022 6:34:53 GMT -5
I had to go look it up, by my memory said the permit thing wasn't bad in Florida after all, for fossils.
Vertebrate fossils (excluding shark teeth) need a permit $ 5 a year Shark teeth, invertebrate and plant fossils can be collected without a permit (sea shells, echinoids and petrified wood).
Artifacts are a totally different story & best done discreetly.
Maybe probing & digging isn't such a good idea, now that I read the laws.
Sure would hate to have a game warden come around the river bend
Guess we'll have to try digging in Alabama.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2022 10:12:47 GMT -5
I had to go look it up, by my memory said the permit thing wasn't bad in Florida after all, for fossils.
Vertebrate fossils (excluding shark teeth) need a permit $ 5 a year Shark teeth, invertebrate and plant fossils can be collected without a permit (sea shells, echinoids and petrified wood). Artifacts are a totally different story & best done discreetly.
Maybe probing & digging isn't such a good idea, now that I read the laws.
Sure would hate to have a game warden come around the river bend Guess we'll have to try digging in Alabama.
Florida has beautiful aquatic systems and they are sensitive. The main reason the laws got strict was mass scale digs and destruction of burial grounds on state lands. And then these people sell their findings totally aggravating the state. Probing is quite benign and is not a crime in the eyes of many DNR officers. They rarely prosecute first time offenders. 2nd time you will be cooked ! I never got caught and have little concern about occasionally probing and never concerned about surface collecting. Proceed at own risk. I resent that Florida would lay claim to an arrowhead someone left loose on the ground but that is just me. Florida may issue a permit for surface collecting artifacts, not sure. They used to have a share program where they asked you to send the state archeologist a photo of find and it's location. They learned a great deal from that program. Coral is considered a fossil so it falls under invertebrate fossils hint hint. You might consider contacting the local DNR office and see if they have a relaxed attitude about collecting lol. Some of those officers laugh about some of the overly strict rules. They do in Georgia. The TVA doesn't seem to care. Just don't dig. The damage up this way is caused by the organizations that built dams. They cause serious silting destruction on mass scale. But reservoirs are needed for water supplies and that justifies that ! The Chattahoochee River is usually in the top 5 most polluted rivers in the US due to 'silt' pollution. I live next to it and it is a crap hole. Rock bottom creeks and rivers are durable when it comes to dredging the bottom of the channel and is allowed in north Georgia for gold dredging. The Withlacoochee River in south Georgia has little management. Love collecting coral there. As is the case with south Alabama. These areas are homes to the timbering industry. I was surprised to see that timber companies were allowed to clear cut right up to the creek and river edge in south Alabama. Georgia limits heavy timbering machinery and cutting to 50 feet from the bank of riverine systems and this makes a huge difference in protecting rivers/creeks. By the way I ordered a Mokai engine powered kayak yesterday. It is small and lightweight and about 3 times faster than my Go Devil boat at 20 mph. Easy to trailer. That should open exploration horizons. It will go up shoals well due to it's jet design. My hero is Rocks Cousteau on Youtube and he uses one. Don't watch him if you want to avoid being envious. His home in Ohio is close to all kinds of treasures including old bottle dumps and remnants from glass marble factories. Mega Native artifacts. He has the life. Lata Rocks in action:
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Post by liveoak on Mar 25, 2022 14:20:59 GMT -5
Politics always control- log to the river back, but don't dare dig...... don't get us started !
Pretty cool watching the guy on the Ohio River - amazing how much he was finding.
Were the gloves because of the cold or the pollution, I wondered.
Looks like a cool boat, but certainly won't be carrying as much stuff .
Have fun.
Patty
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 28, 2022 13:45:28 GMT -5
Politics always control- log to the river back, but don't dare dig...... don't get us started !
Pretty cool watching the guy on the Ohio River - amazing how much he was finding.
Were the gloves because of the cold or the pollution, I wondered. Looks like a cool boat, but certainly won't be carrying as much stuff . Have fun. Patty
It was the abusers that ruined it for everyone. Moderation works best. So if the warden sees you with a shovel he has no idea if you are digging 4 foot holes or just prying an exposed coral head out of the clay. So things got super strict. A shame. Some rivers are darn nasty. Hard to say if he is protecting or keeping warm. I do know he digs large holes at bottle dumps on upland sites. That is hard work. There are a lot of places to far to reach or difficult to get to. That rig should get me to those places. The prettiest places are best viewed from the water IMO. Went to Lee County Alabama yesterday. See the Bartram trail near Tuskegee. The creeks south SW SE of Montgomery make some nice kayak trips. Many are small but will float a kayak just fine.
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