Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 24, 2022 18:08:43 GMT -5
I've finally got a day off and it was 60 degrees outside, so I got something started on my Woofer Vibe project. This is the speaker that I started with, a 15 inch subwoofer speaker rated about 125 watts with a 2 inch Voice Coil. It will eventually be epoxy glued together, but is sitting together using gravity to get these pics. I cut out then speaker Cone to reduce air resistance and and reduce the volume as much as possible, you can see the old cone in the background. Decided to make the Spring Mechanism out of some 1/8 inch Plexiglass cut thinly and bolted to the speaker frame. I think the spring is too stiff right now and will cut the Arms down to half their width before finishing. Used a Dog food can to connect the voice coil with the plexispring. This can will soon have a Bolt through the middle of it to hold my Hoppers full of rocks. There are holes drilled in the can to help air escape from being repeatedly compressed/expanded inside. I will glue the can down to the voice coil, then I will weigh down the spring with about 5 pounds so the spring will be taking most of the weight during the tumble, then glue that to the top of the can. I get another Day Off soon and will try and get it testable ? My thinking on the Butt kickers is to glue some kind of hardware to the top of the magnet. then drill a hole in the Top Plate, then put it all back together. Then mount it to the bottom of an old Speaker Basket without the magnet, Then Finish it out much the same as the Woofer Speaker with a Plexy spring and have the hardware connect directly to the Hopper and rocks. Finally getting stuff done . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 23, 2022 18:25:11 GMT -5
I don't know about your rocks but Just wanted to mention that the Nat Geo tumblers don't come with true Polish Grit Needs to be ordered separately
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 23, 2022 10:59:06 GMT -5
Time to Start it up and give her a spin
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 22, 2022 19:11:24 GMT -5
Generally the Watts/Amps listed on any electrical device is somewhat higher than you will ever encounter in Real Life.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 22, 2022 17:21:22 GMT -5
I tried to organize a Frequently Asked Questions FAQ area a few years ago But everybody said that they liked to answer the questions anyway
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 22, 2022 17:09:35 GMT -5
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 18, 2022 19:48:41 GMT -5
I have been trying so hard to get something accomplished on this project If I were 2 years younger it would be testing stuff already About to turn 65 and working 2 jobs is actually starting to become difficult for me This week is looking very good with lots of time, but the temperature is going to be quite low for the next week without any heat in my shop Trying to get something started soon
I'm pumped to see what you come up with. Like quartz said, time is no issue. Ha, wife just finished signing me up for medicare. Turning 65 on Feb 7. When is your BDay ? I have a firm direction I am taking with the Bass Shaker. That is the first thing I will be working on. Took a picture of my idea and have already changed to another plan, so will need to take another picture. Signed up for Medicare last week, took an hour and a half on the phone. I really need to get a Hernia fixed.
I will turn 65 on April 12 - 2022
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 17, 2022 17:53:34 GMT -5
I have been trying so hard to get something accomplished on this project If I were 2 years younger it would be testing stuff already About to turn 65 and working 2 jobs is actually starting to become difficult for me This week is looking very good with lots of time, but the temperature is going to be quite low for the next week without any heat in my shop Trying to get something started soon
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 13, 2022 7:50:32 GMT -5
More is Better
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 12, 2022 0:44:33 GMT -5
I’ve been reading the other thread with high expectations for something interesting to come of this experiment. I can’t wait to see what results you are able to get. I’m curious as to what your guesses are for the type of movement you may get. Much of it will come down to the design of the bowl you decide to use, but I also wonder if something other than the traditional vibe tumbler movement may yield just as impressive results. My plan right now is to make a 3 pound barrel out of PVC pipe with an Endcap.
The Cap will have multiple attach points so I can see the differences caused by all the points.
Will be looking for whatever creates the most Vibration and Rolling Action.
I honestly don't know what to expect. I know that loudspeakers are actually very powerful, but will it vibrate a barrel and rocks weighing 4 or 5 pounds or more.
The immediate problem is Time. This week I am doing Stagehand for ... Shen Yun , 2 nights Drifters , Coasters and Platters Reba McEntire As well as the Space Museum 3 days this week
Expect results slowly but this is my next project.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 11, 2022 7:21:39 GMT -5
Jamesp came up with the idea to use Bass Shakers (Butt Kickers) to make a Vibe Tumbler and Shake some Rocks It has been discussed a good bit now and the conversation can be found starting a few posts down on this page ... forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/92403/2900rpm-7500rpm-lot-hubs-arrived?page=6So Jamesp wants to make a Rock Tumbler using Woofers ... I must be involved with these experiments ! I have a LARGE number of speakers so I have dragged out an Odd 15 inch woofer to start my tests with. I've got 2 of these that I can sacrifice to the Rock Gods and the other one looks much better. They have a 2 inch Voice coil to attach a mount to and are rated about 125 watts each. The plan is to . . . -- cut out the paper Cone so it won't be so loud, also reducing air backpressure making it all more efficient. -- Glue an aluminum Mount to the voicecoil that I can bolt various Test Barrels to -- create a Spring system to keep the weight of the rocks and barrel from Bottoming Out the Voicecoil structure -- then the fun begins, making different barrels and mounting them different ways to get the rocks to tumble properly The simplest way to make a woofer vibrate is to attach a 6 to 12 volt AC transformer to the woofer, this will vibrate the system at a fixed 60 Hertz at a fixed amplitude depending on the voltage. The best way to Drive the system is to use a Function Generator (Oscillator) and an audio amplifier. This allows you to vary the: Frequency, Amplitude and Waveshape (sine, triangle, square, sawtooth) Jamesp had even suggested that tumbles could be made to Music as the input to the woofer, so you could tumble polish rocks to the Rolling Stones and it would all start to make since. I wonder if a Batch of quartz rocks would have a Value Added if they were tumbled to the music of Pink Floyd with a video showing the process?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 9, 2022 21:35:36 GMT -5
Here is my Shop and Workbench from last week . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 8, 2022 9:01:12 GMT -5
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 7, 2022 17:41:09 GMT -5
>>> Can I ask some questions Tim ? >> So is the back of a speaker basically a solenoid utilizing a permanent magnet for the external electrical field that moves the speaker cone back and forth ? A regular Loudspeaker is a fixed magnet and a coil of wire on a spring mechanism (spider) connected to the cone to vibrate the air.
>> Are these Butt Kickers that convert flat surfaces to speakers simply the same as a vibration generator in the back of a speaker without having a speaker cone attached to it ?
Butt Kickers are made backwards from normal speakers, the magnet is out moving on a spring mechanism to use the weight to create the vibration , then the Coil is mounted to the surface that you want to vibrate like a PVC Tumbler barrel.
>> You mentioned a tone maker/function generator, does it put out a varying current or voltage ?(I have hooked up speakers but never knew what type of power drives them.) The tone generator/Function Generator creates the oscillation at a low voltage too small to drive a speaker/tumbler, but any audio amplifier over 50 watts output should be enough to make it work. I'm already dragging out parts to make something quick. I will make a new post about it very soon.
>> IMO sinusoidal 80hz to 120hz would be a good frequency for finish tumbling, but with a low amplitude of about 1/64" to 1/16" instead of moving a speaker cone 1/8" to 3/8". Thoughts ? >> I am aware that moving a big bass speaker cone back and forth a 1/4" takes some serious wattage, wouldn't moving the cone say a smaller 1/32" take way less wattage ? >> And of course would a 50 watt sound generator at say 150hz with short amplitude have enough power to vibrate rocks thru a thin plastic hopper shell ? ?
I think your suggestion of 80 to 120 HZ would work well, but I bet you could easily dial in the best frequency to create the action you wanted in the hopper just by looking at it in realtime. I believe that even lower frequencies would work really well. A regular tumbler takes less than 50 watts to make it work. In my thinking, it seems you would not need more than 50 watts to make a speaker work just as good. You will want to remove the speaker cone to keep it from being so loud and this will reduce the air pressure loading on it so you will get more power to the rocks than you think.
>> Can they handle potential moisture ? I'm sure I can keep the nastiness out of the sensitive parts.
>> I found a couple of used units. Can I send one to you to connect to your tone generator ? To tinker with ? Might be easier than working with the 15" woofer. I would be happy to play with your parts. I am surprised that this idea has not occurred to me before, I work with speakers everyday, even rebuilding and repairing. Also wonder how much Value I can Add to a batch of quartz polished with Pink Floyd and provided with a video of the polishing process ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 6, 2022 9:33:41 GMT -5
How easy is it to stop the barrel with your hand ? You should be able to stop the motor from turning if it is tight enough. Looking at all the black dust inside the cover also tells me that it is too loose.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 5, 2022 5:32:42 GMT -5
The best way to tell if it is tight enough is to to put your hand on the barrel and see what it takes to stop it and where is it slipping. I recently retightened the belt on my QT12 and your belt looks too loose to push a Half-full barrel.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 4, 2022 10:25:27 GMT -5
That fancy Function Generator would act as the main Control Panel in the setup I am describing above.
You could even use this rig with Piezo Elements to make Ultrasonic Cleaners ect. because of the wide frequency range of 0.2 Hz ~ 2 MHz .
But I never made a Potato Gun , looked at the plans and saw the video though . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 4, 2022 8:05:12 GMT -5
I have a Function Generator (Tone Maker) on my workbench that goes all the way down into Subaudible frequencies and has waveshapes like: Square, Triangle, Sine and Sawtooth waves. I don't use it very much as listening to music is much more useful to me when doing tests. My Website . . . A local sound company owned a couple of those Earthquake speakers and I got a chance to use them a few times, they could go down to very low frequencies and rather powerful too. He told me that when they used them in the movie theaters, They would tune them to the resonate frequency of the building at every location to get maximum effect. You've got me going now ... I have an odd 15 inch woofer I could sacrifice to make an experimental Woofertumbler ?!
Can I ask some questions Tim ? So is the back of a speaker basically a solenoid utilizing a permanent magnet for the external electrical field that moves the speaker cone back and forth ? You mentioned a tone maker/function generator, does it put out a varying current or voltage ?(I have hooked up speakers but never knew what type of power drives them.) Are these ***sound generators that convert flat surfaces to speakers simply the same as a vibration generator in the back of a speaker without having a speaker cone attached to it ? IMO sinusoidal 80hz to 120hz would be a good frequency for finish tumbling, but with a low amplitude of about 1/64" to 1/16" instead of moving a speaker cone 1/8" to 3/8". Thoughts ? I am aware that moving a big base speaker cone back and forth a 1/4" takes some serious wattage, wouldn't moving the cone say a smaller 1/32" take way less wattage ? And of course would a 50 watt sound generator at say 150hz with short amplitude have enough power to vibrate rocks thru a thin plastic hopper shell ? ? *** This is the 50 watt generators. Note the cork. This worries me that tumbling slurry would damage the cork ? i.e. they may not be hermetically sealed...can they handle potential moisture ? I found a couple of used units. Can I send one to you to connect to your tone generator ? To tinker with ? Might be easier than working with the 15" woofer.
I will answer your questions in detail later today , But what you are proposing is both simple and cheap plus a lot of the stuff needed is already found around the home. In the Music industry these speakers you are posting pictures of are called "Butt Kickers" because they are generally mounted on chairs under Butts. So the basic system involved in making a woofertumbler would be Function Generator > Amplifier > Butt Kicker > Rock Hopper on springs eBay is your friend finding a Function Generator Here are some cheap ones www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=xr2206&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=function+generator&_osacat=0Here are some inexpensive ones with more capability than you would ever need www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=gfg+8020&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=function+generator&_osacat=0The Amplifier can be from anything strong enough to power your Butt Kicker, most home stereos could do this task. A PA or Guitar amp would be fine. or once again, eBay can be quite helpful with 100 watt amplifier boards. The Speaker/Butt Kicker will have a Centered position it likes to be at. It also will need to ba able to Push as well as Pull the rock hopper. So the weight of the rocks will need to be supported on springs so the Kicker will not be Bottomed Out. Butt Kickers are designed to work against their Own Magnet Weight to make the vibration, but you can get more efficient action if you mount the back of them down, then dig the cork off the front till you get to the piston that is mounted to the coil, then connect the piston to your Rock Hopper. Will have a design or prototype soon . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 2, 2022 22:33:57 GMT -5
Nice product name Wooferhound . Woofertumbler do you guys use sound generators ? Remember the Movie 'Earthquake' ? When working way thru school for a moving company we had the contract to move those auditorium shaking earthquake speakers. They were like 8' x 8' x 6', we had a lift to move them around. I have a Function Generator (Tone Maker) on my workbench that goes all the way down into Subaudible frequencies and has waveshapes like: Square, Triangle, Sine and Sawtooth waves. I don't use it very much as listening to music is much more useful to me when doing tests. My Website . . .
A local sound company owned a couple of those Earthquake speakers and I got a chance to use them a few times, they could go down to very low frequencies and rather powerful too. He told me that when they used them in the movie theaters, They would tune them to the resonate frequency of the building at every location to get maximum effect.
You've got me going now ... I have an odd 15 inch woofer I could sacrifice to make an experimental Woofertumbler ?!
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 2, 2022 13:23:23 GMT -5
Too Cool . . . Tumbling with Woofers
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