Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 11, 2022 19:03:57 GMT -5
Too Cool ! ! I guess I need to make you another audio adapter for the Circuit Board. They don't appear to care much about the voltage you give to them as long as it is between 5 and 12 volts. I have plenty of WallWart Power Supplies too. Will send a few of those.
>>> No hurry is there ? I'd take your time. Better ideas usually come in dreams or when under influence !
I am definitely Influenced Tonight
>>> When you begin to mass produce the first thousand 'The Super Vibe' units it may be the generator to use !
I am a heavy user on the message Forum that Peavey runs. They make 1000 watt speakers with heavy duty 4 inch Voicecoils which would be much more appropriate to make vibe tumblers out of. I would like Peavey to get involved with making Rock Tumblers because their speakers & Amplifiers are not expensive. Plus they have the ability to put it all together into a functioning Manufactured model, especially if I have it all worked out and can show them How to do it.
>>> No need to make any connectors for me as I will use the other $27 unit with readout and coaxial type plug connector. Thanks.
James ... I consider you an accomplished Maker/Creator. It's funny to me that you don't understand the need for an Adapter to go between the coax BNC/Terminals output on the Oscillator, and the Phono/RCA input jack on you home stereo amplifier. I've already made the adapter for you with outputs to RCA/Phono for home stereo amps, and it also has 1/4 inch Output for professional amplifiers, but I need to do some small modification on it to provide the bare wire Outputs from the Terminal strip on your Oscillator Circuit Board, and also the BNC Output from your Fancy Oscillator. It will all be completely clear when you get it in the mail.
>>> Can you tell me where I connect the 2 output wires from the signal generator to the stereo amp ?
The 2 wires from your Oscillator Circuit board should be adapted to Phono/RCA connectors and then they could be plugged into any -Left- input on your Home Stereo amp.
Video 1 - Video 2 - Tape - CD , then select that input on the front panel and use the -Left- speaker output wires to your Shaker. The Volume on the Amplifier is the Amount/Amplitude of the Vibration.
The unused -Right- channel can be used for a second Tumbler.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 11, 2022 9:44:01 GMT -5
Wooferhound I bought both the $27 and $12 signal generators. The $12 was complete, no soldering but did not include 110VAC - 9 to 12 VDC power supply with 5.5mm jack. Have not received nicer $27 unit. I took a photo of the factory assembled $12 unit and found a video on using it. Photo. Note green jumpers for 10 to 100hz, 100 to 1000hz, 1000 to 10,000hz, etc., another jumper for sine or triangle wave. Adjustable amplitude and fine/coarse frequency knobs. Output to amp is blue terminal strip, ground and either sine or triangle or square wave. Black 5.5mm power supply jack at top. Tiny and well made, real nice build. Starting at 7 minutes operation is shown when connected to oscilloscope. Does nice 10hz to 100hz sine wave. At higher amplitude on sine wave it clips the top of sine wave - nice for gentle reversals to protect rocks.
Too Cool ! ! I guess I need to make you another audio adapter for the Circuit Board. They don't appear to care much about the voltage you give to them as long as it is between 5 and 12 volts. I have plenty of WallWart Power Supplies too. Will send a few of those.
That board is very cheap and absolutely great for what we are trying to do with these Shakers. My Function Generator has not arrived and and it may not come. The last 2 Feedback for the Seller describe him as a thief. Just might order a couple of the Circuit Boards since they are reviewed well on YouTube.
I want to move this project along as best as I can. Have been feeling so slow in the last week and don't want to do anything when I get off from work. Plenty of ideas on how to make this thing more efficient, and have the parts on-hand, just need to do it.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 8, 2022 19:09:47 GMT -5
They say that the Restaurant on the Moon has Good Food. But there is No Atmosphere . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 8, 2022 18:57:47 GMT -5
Did you know that the Earth does not actually have any Gravity , it Just Sucks . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 7, 2022 20:06:11 GMT -5
Soooooo, if I stop by and ask for Mr Woofer, would you give us a personal tour? Anybody can let me know you are coming and I will do a personal tour for your group.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 7, 2022 17:42:04 GMT -5
I know that you guys have been waiting for me to post this for a month now.
Here is a picture of Uranus . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 6, 2022 20:30:07 GMT -5
I haven't done much on this project because I still don't have the Signal Generator that I ordered from eBay. Had mentioned earlier that my oscillators don't work properly and I don't like the effects that I'm getting from a Pink Noise Generator.
I got a 6 inch PVC pipe endcap for over $35 but it's really too big and the wall thickness is 3/8 inch which makes it heavy. Thought about cutting it down some or I could make a smaller endcap work better, perhaps a 4 inch cap ? Also got a $14 fancy toilet plunger that has some great chances of becoming a Rock Hopper, much lighter and so springy. I want to take a little different route with the same idea, but the structure shouldn't be so stiff and heavy ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 6, 2022 20:10:38 GMT -5
Check out this signal generator Wooferhound . It has a display to tell what type of vibration and it's parameters for $27. Would this be a good economical choice for a hobbyist's vibe controller after he added an amp ? Looks like a coax cable is used to feed the amp. www.ebay.com/itm/174468420178
Yes I was perusing eBay for Cheap and Good function generators All of these Plastic Box generators between $25 and $40 looked great, and better than the cheaper Circuit Boards offered Yes the BNC coax connector. Usually used for Coax I have the tool that crimps those connectors and I should have some connectors here somewhere, might take a minute to find it all ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 6, 2022 19:46:46 GMT -5
Nice purchase. Looks like a helpful addition to the sound lab. I assume that device will generate a broad range of multiple signals ? Man I appreciate you making the connection device. No need to use your valuable time making components for me. I am just happy to see you using your valuable know how on this project. But I do appreciate it since I have no idea what I need ! Notes and observations for what it is worth: EBAY has a bunch of old signal generators for sale. Problem - many of them either don't work or are being sold for parts. Most are so old they use vacuum tubes and probably won't work for full time operation. Don't you think modern cheaper dedicated solid state signal generator units should easily be rated for continuous duty ? Here are some motor wattages for various motor driven vibes if they help. Maybe this will give you an idea of power requirements per pound of rock. The closest similar machine would be the Mini-Sonic and it does not give power rating. Anyone know? Loto - .07hp/52 watts for 4 pounds UV10 - 1/30hp/25 watts for 10 pounds UV18 - 1/20hp/37 watts for 18 pounds Vibrasonic - .33hp/246 watts for up to 100 pounds at 100% counterweight setting Tim - When I hooked up the 25 watt Bass Shaker to the amp I had to turn the volume up to about 60% to get what seemed to be a healthy vibe level mechanical vibration. It was connected to the 'A' channel. It is a 190 watt amp. I am guessing that one (A) channel would be 190/2 = 95 watts. At 60% volume it would seem that the Bass Shaker was pulling(very) roughly 60 watts(or the amp is making up to 60 watts available when needed) ? Lol, I have no idea as this is way out of my bailiwick. Connecting a 25 watt 'speaker' to aprox. 100 amps seems spokey, perhaps the Bass Shaker only draws what it needs...
Oh Yeah , I can't wait to get this fancy Signal Generator from eBay. Supposed to produce frequencies between .2 hz to 2 mhz using Sine, Square or Triangle waves with an output level up to 5 volts at 50 ohms. Was supposed to get here yesterday but it didn't make it, hopefully tomorrow (monday).
A Tube-type Function Generator would be OK as a signal maker but each tube uses 25 watts of power just for the Heater Filament, and the tube needs replacing every few years. Solid-state is definitely the way to go, and yes, they would be great for Continuous use.
Looking at the Vibe motor Wattages , it looks like I should be aiming for 50 to 100 watts for efficient tumbling power.
Estimating audio power from an amplifier based on it's rated power and the position of the volume control is impossible. Here are a few reasons ...
-- Audio power is not Linear, it is Exponential. If my amplifier is producing 10 watts of power and I want to Double the volume from the speaker, the power will need to be increased 4 Times to 40 watts for the volume to double. The Volume Control (potentiometer) on an amplifier has a special Audio Taper which does this automatically, ramping up slowly in the beginning and then rapidly at the end of travel.
-- In Physics we learn that -Everytime you double the frequency, you also double the Energy-. Humans can hear 10 octaves of sound, each octave is double the frequency. So when amplifying sound you only need half the power in each octave as you go up. So if you have 512 watts in the Lowest octave, you will only need 1 watt in the highest octave.
-- In No Way does the position of the Volume Control represent the percentage of amplifier power that you are getting. Your output power is based on the amount of Input Signal coming in. If your Volume Control is all the way up, and you are getting Full amplifier power, you could reduce the Control which decreases the volume/power, then you could increase you input signal enough to get Full Power again without the control being Topped Out.
-- Speaker Ohm ratings control how much power the Amplifier puts out. Speakers are almost always rated either 4 or 8 ohms, rarely different. A 4 ohm speaker will pull 2 times more power from the amp than the 8 ohm speaker at the same volume control setting.
If you are a Sound Guy, these are some of the first things learned . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 1, 2022 11:05:51 GMT -5
Was thinking that I had a couple of Function Generators (oscillators) But None of them work. The one on the bottom uses Vacuum Tubes and is older than the one that Jamesp recently got. It works but not good enough, plus it has tubes so it will use a lot of power. Have had the one on top for a year but did not have an odd powercord so it never got tested. I opened it up and soldered a power cord directly to it, but No Joy, only outputs static BK Precision 2MHz Function Generator 3011B So I went on eBay and bought one like this for almost $70. A very capable precision electronic instrument that is Way Overkill for a Vibe tumbler but can be used for otherthings too. Basicly this will be the brains of the operation. The setup is starting too look like a small Recording Studio Testing with my little 6 volt AC transformer was not enough so some real audio equipment is starting to get involved. Also my Function Generators don't work and won't have my new one for another week. Now generating my vibrations is a Pink Noise Generator, having it's signal increased using a Rackmount Mixer and then into a 500 watt amplifier. Pink Noise contains All the Audio frequencies equally, and sounds much like the static between TV or Radio stations. The high frequencies are not very powerful and just make it sound louder so I have my amplifier adjusted to only amplify low frequencies below 100 hz. This is working very good and can throw rocks out of the small 3 inch cap if I turn up the volume up to full. The Cap is too small to allow good motion too and I will get a bigger cap today. I feel like the random frequencies of pink noise aren't very effective at moving the rocks and a steady tone would work much better at moving the rocks around. Won't be able to try it out till my new oscillator gets here this weekend. And some Housekeeping Yesterday I made these audio adaptor boxes so Our Function Generators can easily be connected to Amplifers. One is mine and the other is for Jamesp. They have Banana Jacks on the input side but all the newer Function Generators have BNC Outputs now, including the one that I just bought. So I will be removing the Banana Jacks and crimping on some BNC connectors. Just now starting to Have Fun . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 30, 2022 8:55:41 GMT -5
>> hummingbirdstones >> I'm still intently watching all this happen. >> Jamesp >> Great findings Tim. So the power is there. >> Stuckinohio >> I am now intellectually and emotionally invested in this journey and shall eagerly await the next installment. Oh yeah guys . . . I can't wait for the Next Update either !? Kinda busy looking Photo here, but this is where I got to yesterday. Tried to find some 6 inch PVC Endcaps on Saturday but the specialty stores were closed and Home Depot does not carry 6 inch PVC, ended up playing with one of the 3 inch endcaps that I got a few days ago. Cut out another piece of Plexiglass that can hold my Cap in a couple of positions on either side of center. Filled it full of rocks and tried to vibe it with my little 6 volt AC transformer. It was fairly powerful, but not enough, so I stopped playing and plan to focus my attention to getting my Function Generator (Oscillator) working, plus also making some Adapter cables so Jamesp and Me are able to get the Oscillator Tones out to some amplifiers and eventually into these machines. I have Monday and Tuesday off so maybe I can get the 6 inch caps and actually do something soon ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 29, 2022 10:07:42 GMT -5
I haven't Vibed rocks before so I must ask ... When the rocks are vibrating and Rolling/Mixing properly , does it require Grit & Water , or will they roll Dry ? Can I vibe Large & Small rocks together ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 28, 2022 20:44:14 GMT -5
If you can polish Glass , then go ahead and try to polish the softer stones .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 28, 2022 18:14:58 GMT -5
No progress today. I did try and buy some 6 inch PVC Caps but the closest Home Depot only had 3 inch caps ... I bought 2 anyway. Yes the speaker coil is simple and effective and efficient and quiet and strong. Got another day off tomorrow and plan on working on some audio adapters for me and Jamesp to connect our oscillators to our speaker/tumblers. Probably go to a Plumbing supply store and get some 6 inch Endcaps, maybe start some rocks shaking
The most important things I had to prove in the beginning was ... Is a Speaker Voicecoil strong enough to shake a barrel and rocks weighing 8 pounds or more ... and that answer is a Huge Yes. Can a speaker be used and it won't get too loud ... that answer is also a Yes
Now it's time to get down to business and polish some rocks . . . hopefully
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 28, 2022 5:48:45 GMT -5
There is a type of Sub Bass speaker that has the cones driven by Servo Motors That would be another method to consider ?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 27, 2022 19:45:42 GMT -5
That is the best part about building with a Subwoofer.
It already has a Frame with 8 Bolt Holes.
Yes that speaker frame made a perfect structure to work with. question If the hopper was mounted just off-center on the cross shaped support would it help to give the stones a rolling motion ? Perhaps cut the 'bullseye' in the center of the PVC cross support large enough to mount the hopper off-center in an optimum location for offset rolling motion of the rocks ? To improve mixing... Here is the finished tumbler without the Rock Hopper. The two 10-32 machine screws are super tightened and glued. This is a Prototype in the true meaning, it is all glued together without much chance of modification. A pathfinder leading the way to a more researched/modifiable/Repairable version to be built soon. I intend to start out mounting the Hopper in the center to see what the action will be without any attempt to create a rolling motion. It is possible that just tilting the whole thing will make rolling motion? Then I have plenty of ideas to try and make it all roll, plus all of the Forums ideas too. One initial problem is that I have never done Vibe Tumbling, but I have seen it on TV. Seen enough videos to know that it is hypnotic when it's tumbling correctly. At this time I don't have anything that I can use as a Rock Hopper. Thought I had a couple of 6 inch PVC Endcaps but can't find any, So will purchase some soon, kinda pricy but seems like it would work well. I applied the last glue needed this morning and it was hardened very well when I got off work, so some testing was done ahead of schedule. Hooked up a 6.3 volt AC Transformer to the speaker which will give the speaker 60 hz at about 8 watts. It works very Good and is not as loud as I thought it was going to be. I placed a Baggie full of rocks on top and they settled out instantly and some small rocks were crawling around on top of the pile. The rocks rattling around was louder than the Machine was. I think this will eventually work Quite Well. Bass speakers for cars are cheap and powerful, can be purchased for $40 to $50 that are good enough to make a vibe from.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 27, 2022 8:45:05 GMT -5
Cool suspension design Tim. You were even utilized the speaker frame as it was originally used. That is the best part about building with a Subwoofer.
It already has a Frame with 8 Bolt Holes.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 26, 2022 16:31:44 GMT -5
Here it is , sitting for the night , freshly glued with 5 minute epoxy Gorilla glue. There is a 3 pound barrel on top with about the number of rocks that this should tumble. It is Preloading the Plexispring to prevent the Voicecoil from Bottoming Out under the rock load. If you have ever used 5 Minute Epoxy, then you would know not to touch it for 12 hours or more, so I get to take the barrel off and get a peek at it tomorrow. Still several more days before Vibing some rocks . . .
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 26, 2022 14:57:40 GMT -5
I've gotten a lot of the modifications done already and will start gluing things together soon. Looks like testing as soon as tomorrow night I hope. Then I will start making something with the Butt Kicker that Jamesp sent me.
Remember that I have another 15 inch woofer I intend to sacrifice after I see what this current experiment will do. So if anybody has any ideas about how to make improvements , please feel free so make suggestions before I build the next one.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 26, 2022 11:09:17 GMT -5
Amazingly I have another day off today and plan to get a lot more done ... -- Cutting down the Plexiglass arms to thin them out and make it all more flexible. -- Putting hardware onto the center Can that will connect to the Rock Hopper which will probably be a PVC pipe endcap. -- Using Epoxy glue to glue the Voicecoil/Can and the Can/Plexispring Then it will be time to connect some audio power to it all and see if it will Shake it up Baby.
When I started out looking for something to connect the Voicecoil to the plexispring, I realized that using metal was going to be a problem because it was attracted to the magnet. Even if the metal was Aluminum, there would be Magnetic Breaking which would drain energy reducing efficiency. This is one of the reasons why I am using a can to connect the vibration to a flexible surface that can hold different rock hoppers. The open end of the can will be connected to the voicecoil, which is keeping the vibrating metal away from the magnet. Also thought about using PVC pipe for this purpose.
Just waiting on things to warm up a bit before I get started . . .
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