|
Post by tims on Nov 3, 2016 20:08:31 GMT -5
Finally pulled the trigger and started my first tumble ever, a 10# grab bag in Viking 14# vibe. Mostly jasper / chalcedony. 10 tablespoons water and 10 tablespoons 120/220 as per the manual. Here's how it looks to start: (noise warning)
After 1 hour:
This is running 3 feet from my bed so I may need to run in 16 hour increments to get sleep ... any foreseeable issues there? In the meantime every chair in my tired old house is like a free massage chair.
|
|
|
Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 3, 2016 20:27:33 GMT -5
Ah, the sweet sound of rolling rocks. You can't sleep to that??? You're just not tired enough. Look forward to seeing the results.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 3, 2016 20:52:51 GMT -5
Tims, I never put more than 2-3 tablespoons of grit in mine. Not sure why those instructions go so heavy on the grit. Compare the dose to a Lot-O per pound. Have used 30-80-220-500-1000-5000-14,000. An have always used 2 tablespoons of any of those with great success.
Looking forward to your tumbles, hope you have a rotary.
Those machines are pretty loud.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 4, 2016 1:13:48 GMT -5
Tims, I never put more than 2-3 tablespoons of grit in mine. Not sure why those instructions go so heavy on the grit. Compare the dose to a Lot-O per pound. Have used 30-80-220-500-1000-5000-14,000. An have always used 2 tablespoons of any of those with great success. Looking forward to your tumbles, hope you have a rotary. Those machines are pretty loud. Just 2-3 tablespoons for a full load? That's what i get for reading the instructions. I wanted to try the first batch by the book and adjust from there, but dang that seems like a big discrepancy. I'll see how it looks at 12 hours, but at 6 it looks ok to me ... everything's moving around well and it doesn't seem too dry. The nice thing about first trys is it's a good excuse for making mistakes. I have an ancient 2-barrel sears rotary but the barrels are shot, so i'm hoping to be able to finish to polish in the vibe. If it doesn't blow up or burn the house down i think i can suffer the noise for a few days.
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 4, 2016 5:05:50 GMT -5
Tims, I never put more than 2-3 tablespoons of grit in mine. Not sure why those instructions go so heavy on the grit. Compare the dose to a Lot-O per pound. Have used 30-80-220-500-1000-5000-14,000. An have always used 2 tablespoons of any of those with great success. Looking forward to your tumbles, hope you have a rotary. Those machines are pretty loud. In the loto I think most of us are using 2 tablespoons of 120/220 for 3-4 pounds of rock. If you guys are tossing in 12-14 pounds of rock I would expect at least 6-8 tablespoons. For 500,1000 and polish we step down to 1/2 tablespoon Teaspoon of each in the loto. Chuck
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 4, 2016 5:44:15 GMT -5
Tims, I never put more than 2-3 tablespoons of grit in mine. Not sure why those instructions go so heavy on the grit. Compare the dose to a Lot-O per pound. Have used 30-80-220-500-1000-5000-14,000. An have always used 2 tablespoons of any of those with great success. Looking forward to your tumbles, hope you have a rotary. Those machines are pretty loud. In the loto I think most of us are using 2 tablespoons of 120/220 for 3-4 pounds of rock. If you guys are tossing in 12-14 pounds of rock I would expect at least 6-8 tablespoons. For 500,1000 and polish we step down to 1/2 tablespoon of each in the loto. Chuck Did you mean 1/2 TEAspoon, Chuck? That's all I use after 220.
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 4, 2016 6:14:33 GMT -5
In the loto I think most of us are using 2 tablespoons of 120/220 for 3-4 pounds of rock. If you guys are tossing in 12-14 pounds of rock I would expect at least 6-8 tablespoons. For 500,1000 and polish we step down to 1/2 tablespoon of each in the loto. Chuck Did you mean 1/2 TEAspoon, Chuck? That's all I use after 220. Yep that's what I meant, Thanks rob. Thats what I get for typing at 6:00 in the morning.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 4, 2016 6:20:58 GMT -5
The Viking manual is seriously grit-heavy, calling for 1 tablespoon (15cc) grit per pound for each of the first 3 stages, and 10cc (~2 teaspoons) per pound for final polish. I'd like to think the manufacturers knew what they were talking about, but i have to give preference to the advice i get here from people that get proven results from their equipment. Thanks for the help.
I'm wondering if i might need some filler media for the later stages --- with so little abrasive it seems there wouldn't be much slurry to keep good contact between the stones. Do you guys add anything besides water and abrasive after the first stage? I've seen sugar and borax mentioned in different threads but get conflicting rationales for when and why to use them.
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 4, 2016 6:27:37 GMT -5
I use a Lot-o, so I'm not sure how it varies from a Viking. I use ceramic media every single time I run my Lot-O. I'd say a minimum of about 30%. If I'm doing something special or have lots of flats, I kick the ceramic up to 50% or so. I use a mix of large and small. Make sure you get ceramic without embedded grit. You can move the ceramics along with the rocks from stage to stage.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 4, 2016 6:53:15 GMT -5
Good excuse to drive to Keystone this weekend, thanks Jugglerguy. 12 hour check: things were getting slow and sticky and the couple flats i put in were hugging the edges of the barrel. Spritzed it until everything loosened up but i may forego the "watched pot" theory and start checking more often.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2016 8:33:38 GMT -5
Extreme case. Taking rocks out of the rotary in SiC30 grit and putting them in the Viking with 2 tablespoons of aluminum oxide 80 and getting a fine pre shine in two days. It just does not take much grit. It was Rob or Chuck that noticed my recipe and thought it was overkill. Changed recipe to Lot-O rates and never looked back long ago. I remember having SiC 220 settle on the bottom of the hopper using the instruction's rates.
The Viking will do bigger rocks but best with a lot of small media. Too many big rocks and they will pile up on one side and the media travel to the other side making it useless. The faster the rocks roll the less the separation.
I will be cutting some 3/4 inch rubber dividers and pressing them into the hopper to divide it into separate cavities to prevent separation. Hope it works. Donut tubs and apparently the Lot-O tub do not have separation issues.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 4, 2016 15:20:36 GMT -5
I don't have a ton of smalls in this batch but it's a pretty even mix and everything seems to be mixing ok; the only issue I noticed is the flatter rocks liking to stick to the sides when it gets a little dry. I'll definitely cut down the grit for the latter stages and when I rinse and recharge the 220 here in a few hours.
The instructions also call for 1 tablespoon water per pound at every stage and that doesn't seem too wet as far as I can tell ...
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2016 19:24:19 GMT -5
Maybe the Lot-O guys do this, I cover the rocks in water, pour the water out well, then use that amount of water(freshly drained rocks) when using Borax. If running sugar it is a cup water and a cup sugar. Always run the hopper full. Even mix works perfect in mine. Sic 220 makes mud fast and should be changed or moved to the next step in 24 hours.
Never figured out why those instructions specify X5 the grit needed.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 4, 2016 21:36:20 GMT -5
Thanks Jim. After 24 hours i cleaned everything out --- lots and lots of mud. Will start with fresh and far less 220 in the morning. This kid is gonna sleep tonight.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2016 21:55:23 GMT -5
Thanks Jim. After 24 hours i cleaned everything out --- lots and lots of mud. Will start with fresh and far less 220 in the morning. This kid is gonna sleep tonight. Mine is 800 feet from the house in a greenhouse. Can hear the dry bearing. Motor bearing has a high freq. whine. Taking it for rebuild.
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
|
Post by Fossilman on Nov 5, 2016 9:42:07 GMT -5
Congrads on your 1st buy.........Your hooked now!!!!
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 6, 2016 2:51:34 GMT -5
How involved / expensive is a rebuild? I tell myself i won't put enough hours on mine to ever have problems, but wishful thinking only gets you so far. Hope you get yours sorted without too much pain.
I got started late today but should be through the 2nd round of 220 sunday afternoon, so 24 hours with way too much grit then 24 with 2 tablespoons of 220. Hoping to move on to 500 aluminum oxide from there for 24 or so then polish but will have to see how things look.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 11:49:02 GMT -5
How involved / expensive is a rebuild? I tell myself i won't put enough hours on mine to ever have problems, but wishful thinking only gets you so far. Hope you get yours sorted without too much pain. I got started late today but should be through the 2nd round of 220 sunday afternoon, so 24 hours with way too much grit then 24 with 2 tablespoons of 220. Hoping to move on to 500 aluminum oxide from there for 24 or so then polish but will have to see how things look. Rebuilding the motor is a 'get a quote from motor shop', guessing $100. I suppose springs and two bearings could add to $100. Mine had a lot of hours and looked as if spent some time in the weather. Even had some divots in the polyurethane hopper from rocks vibrating in one place, not a problem but I never made any wear spots running some crazy stuff. Bearings have grease fittings, should not be a problem. Motors ? Who knows when they will go, especially at 3600 RPM.
|
|
|
Post by tims on Nov 6, 2016 21:50:47 GMT -5
After the 2nd 24hour run things are starting to round out, but i'm seeing lots of impact dings and some fracturing. Didn't notice this after the first 24 hours and am wondering if the extra grit / mud helped to cushion things initially. I didn't have time to run to Keystone over the weekend, but ordered 10 pounds of ceramic media, small and medium, and will top off the load and continue when they arrive. Hoping that will cushion the load and help to get more thorough contact to the nooks and crannies.
In the meantime I'm thinking of building an insulated wooden box and running the vibe on the sidewalk outside my house ... will see if i can get it soundproofed well enough. The vibe gets warm (not hot) when it's running so i'm thinking if it's in a well-insulated enclosure i should be safe from freezing up unless it gets really cold, which isn't even an issue so far. Days are staying in the 60s here which is crazy warm for November, but winter's going to hit eventually. It's warm enough now i might have to vent the box to keep it from overheating.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 7, 2016 2:24:48 GMT -5
With that encapsulated 1/3 HP motor freezing should not be an issue. Have run mine down to 25F. 3600 RPM motor a serious heater. However heat is my problem as it is in a greenhouse. Hot here. Has to be in shade. At 100F ambient the rocks get so hot they are almost unbearable to the touch. So real hot. Motor gets hot too, which is not good. Motor has been running for over a year with what sounds like a dry bearing. So the overhaul.
Never had any Mohs 7 rocks get damaged unless there was too many big rocks. My Viking does not do softer rocks. It wants to frost them. There are adjustments but I never had luck slowing it down for say rhyolite, glass or obsidian. I believe the counterweights are supposed to be set at about 1.2 for the 14 pound hopper. Have you checked their setting ?
With a good mix of stones to 2 inches I use no media. If say running 8 pounds of only 1.5 to 2 inch stones I use 6 pounds of pea sized media. Too cheap to use ceramics so I just use small quartz and agates.
What type of rocks are you running ?
|
|