jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 26, 2016 17:35:20 GMT -5
That's a beast. I could see where you might want an extra set of springs under it. The way this machine is built it seems like the ultimate platform for fabbing custom barrels, especially with the price for OEM replacements. ~$700 for a new one is pricy. Still, you probably couldn't dent one of the originals with an atomic bomb so there must be some used ones out there gathering dust somewhere ... As for quartz gravel I know where to gather some good stuff when it warms up again, the spot I pick garnets is right near an old gold (I think) mine with a big discard pile of big quartz chunks and there's gravel-sized quartz all over up there. Glad you're up and running again. This time I had 3 six pound barrels finish coarse grind on some larger 2-3 inch rocks(the Rio's). Never turned the Viking off. Would add about 4 pounds and run them 2 days, one day in AO 220 and then add AO 500. After 48 hours I removed the rocks and added 4 more pounds. Did the same, 220 one day and added 500 the 2nd day. Removed those rocks and added 4 more pounds same grit additions. Did it for 3 cycles(12 pounds rock total). After 3rd batch I did a clean out. There was 10 pounds of pea sized media the whole time. Wanted a lot of media because the rocks were kinda big. I did add water and Borax each time rocks were added. To help slurry from getting too thick. Started with drip dried rocks and two tablespoons Borax. Added another two tablespoons water. So kept Borax slurry on the wet side. Yes, that base lends itself to attaching anything to it. You can use it for a vibratory separator too. That tall 35 pound tub has an advantage of weight from rocks being so tall causing lots of pressure. Pretty sure rocks are moving relative to each other in a vibe whether you are at the top of the rock column or the bottom. Viking mentioned the long 14 pound hopper was good for tumbling long stuff. It tumbled a 2 pound chunk of wood about 7 inches long with no effort. Ran it by itself, media and ~1 inch tumbles. MrP welded up a fat barrel for vibe polishing his big slabs.
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Post by tims on Nov 26, 2016 18:21:14 GMT -5
Saw your Rios, they are sweet. You just ran 220 then 500 to finish?
I'm trying to rush the finish on my load as it's supposed to get wintery Monday, and considered ending with 500 which i'd run about 18 hours ... decided to just keep it in the resulting 500 mud and add a little AO polish overnight tonight and see what happens. Since i'm cleaning out in my yard i've been sticking with sugar and avoiding borax, although if i have time might run a short cleaning cycle with regular laundry or dish soap. No biggie there though as i'll have a few months to hand clean everything if it comes to it.
My mud with 500 is way thinner than the 80 / 220 cycles and i see the separation issue almost immediately now. Before adding the polish i pulled out all the larger rocks that had gathered on one side and pushed the pea gravel from the other side over, then put the big rocks where the gravel had gathered. Turned it back on and in 5 minutes everything had swapped sides again, so i guess it will be what it will be. I'm not expecting great results but am excited to finish up this first batch and hopefully carry over the learning experience when spring rolls back around.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 26, 2016 18:58:24 GMT -5
That shift thing would not be so much an issue with a narrower hopper. Even donut shaped tubs have bunching up issues, not near as bad as this long linear hopper. Wish they made the 35 pound style in a 15 pound size. Would hate to feed a 35 pound hopper.
There is also a two 4 pound hopper arrangement. Each 4 pound hopper is a mini-scale 35 pound hopper. Have heard great results from the little 4 pounders. Which is a great alternative. I would like to have four 4 pound or three 5 pound hoppers each individually removable.
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Post by tims on Nov 27, 2016 17:19:07 GMT -5
Supposed to snow tonight so I think i'm done for the season. I didn't set my expectations low enough, this is a pretty disappointing first go. This is my mess, if anything looks shiny it's still a little wet:
The quartz I stacked to the left because it was easy to sort, then the semi-ok pieces, with utter fails on the right. The right side filled up quick. I've got a lot of material that must be softer than I thought, some that wore through to softer material inside, and a whole bunch that needs to go through the 80 stage another time or 2.
This is 144 hours total but probably a couple days wasted running degraded 220. Next year i'm going to be far more particular with what goes in to tumble, plus hopefully it will be an ongoing process where I can pull things out and set them aside for advanced stages instead of trying to run one batch from start to finish.
Here is a little better look at the semi-gloss finish I got on smoother pieces:
Thanks for all the advice along the way --- hopefully I can put it to better use next year.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 27, 2016 18:16:13 GMT -5
Where did you collect those rocks ? You got wood, jasper, agate. And good ones at that. We got to get you a rotary. To shape those jewels. Then use the vibe to lay a polish on them.
You have a gold mine, very nice rocks. Are they roundish when you find them ? Near a river ? Ancient wash ?
You should at least get a tile saw and cut them in half so you can see the insides on one face after tumbled.
The ones on the right with the white specks are probably high in chalcedony and beautiful. They just need to be ground down more in a rotary tumbler.
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Post by tims on Nov 27, 2016 20:34:09 GMT -5
You're going to talk me into more equipment Jim. Been considering a lortone 33b for awhile and i still haven't got myself anything for xmas ...
The material is about half yard finds and half collected at random spots around the black hills. Only a few pieces were prepped at all, small slabs and end pieces. All the pet wood is yard stuff and i've got piles of prettier stuff my grandparents collected, plus lots of jasper and some boulder agates, but i'm afraid to play with their goodies until i know what i'm doing. They collected all over wyoming and the black hills for 50 years and i'm still working on unearthing the tons of material they left behind.
Of the stuff i collected there's some teepee canyon agate, and all the round gray ones are from teepee ... i'm not sure what they are but i find lots of them and they're naturally smooth and round. Also find alot of red jasper and white and blue chalcedony at teepee and vicinity. There's also some small stuff i picked up at buffalo gap while failing to find fairburns. Very mixed bag, i was just grabbing anything that looked hard and was about the right size and that wouldn't make me cry if i ruined it.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 27, 2016 21:33:39 GMT -5
You are lucky to have such resources. Wood in your yard, how does that work for you ? 50 years stock pile.
Better get a 12 pound barrel minimum. Got lots to do. Will take a lifetime to tumble a percentage
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 27, 2016 21:55:56 GMT -5
You are lucky to have such resources. Wood in your yard, how does that work for you ? 50 years stock pile. Better get a 12 pound barrel minimum. Got lots to do. Will take a lifetime to tumble a percentage QT12 is what you need. Or QT66.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 27, 2016 22:11:19 GMT -5
You are lucky to have such resources. Wood in your yard, how does that work for you ? 50 years stock pile. Better get a 12 pound barrel minimum. Got lots to do. Will take a lifetime to tumble a percentage QT12 is what you need. Or QT66. Work on him Randy. He sits in an agate gold mine.
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rastageezer
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 169
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Post by rastageezer on Nov 28, 2016 0:41:23 GMT -5
Get a QT 12. I run 3 of them to feed a Lotto. They do the heavy lifting with 46/70 grit. ( 2 of my stock QT 12 barrels ride on a home built base at slightly faster speed than stock, the other is bone stock. I use a 33b to do smaller stones coming out of the 12# barrels for #2 stage if I start to fall behind) Keeping my eyes open for a Viking but Chuck's tumbles with the lotto are keeping me honest to a lower priced option.
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Post by tims on Nov 28, 2016 13:30:59 GMT -5
I guess if i'm just using this for shaping the 33b with 2 small barrels would be kind of stupid. QT12 isn't much more money. Plus i'm assuming i could get away with running it in the house through the winter, small enough to haul out in the yard with a couple buckets of hot water for cleanouts.
The learning curve on yet another machine worries me, but either i let these rocks sit, give them away, or do something fun with them. Will probably be begging advice on rotary from yall in a month or so.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Nov 28, 2016 14:57:12 GMT -5
Learning curve is easy with a rotary. Load it with rock, fill with water, add grit, turn on. You can get more in depth than that (just look at all of our crazy threads), but it's pretty easy to get things rolling.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 28, 2016 15:10:56 GMT -5
Can't go wrong with the QT12, perfect course grind machine. Load it up and walk away. You can fool with it as much or as little as you want, as has been proven on this forum. And yes, will work nicely in the house, not too noisy if kept in a different room.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2016 15:27:29 GMT -5
And it is gift season.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 16:07:10 GMT -5
Oh crap, thanks for the reminder...
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2016 17:08:21 GMT -5
Oh crap, thanks for the reminder... Better stop that catting around and do your shopping.
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Nov 28, 2016 19:48:55 GMT -5
tims, I see a big issue. I have run the big 50lb unit for a few years and I predict you may have a problem.
These things generate heat when running, and the rock load warms up. When you shut it off, the grit that has found its way into the cracks and holes in the rocks dries and turns to cement from the residual heat in the unit. The only remedy (short of possible using a high-pressure dry cleaning spot sprayer like a Babbs) is to start back at rough grind.
I learned this the hard way. It's the bad part of vibratory units, the amount of babysitting they need. If you let the load dry out, you may as well plan on starting over. You can't shut the unit off and think "I'll rinse these off tomorrow".
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2016 6:28:51 GMT -5
tims, I see a big issue. I have run the big 50lb unit for a few years and I predict you may have a problem. These things generate heat when running, and the rock load warms up. When you shut it off, the grit that has found its way into the cracks and holes in the rocks dries and turns to cement from the residual heat in the unit. The only remedy (short of possible using a high-pressure dry cleaning spot sprayer like a Babbs) is to start back at rough grind. I learned this the hard way. It's the bad part of vibratory units, the amount of babysitting they need. If you let the load dry out, you may as well plan on starting over. You can't shut the unit off and think "I'll rinse these off tomorrow". Mike, I hear you about the heat drying the rocks out in the Viking. I run my Viking in a hot green house during a hot Georgia summer. Amazed at how hot the rocks get in the Viking. I can NOT NO WAY put my hands in the hopper, stones that hot. Seriously hot. When doing a clean out I let them cool for an hour before dumping cold water in the hopper for fear of cracking the rocks from temp shock. I have run sugar with lots of water. 1 cup sugar and 1 cup water last 3 days before having to add water for 14 pound hopper. Doing AO 500 and finer. Never had grit entrapment as the sugar dissolves and helps purge the grit out of the pits. However, recently I have been taking the rocks straight out of the rotary and using AO 220(or AO 80) and using Borax with higher water ratio. Runs a full 48 hours with out adding water. The slick Borax allows a thicker slurry not to hinder rock movement. However, after 2 days in AO 80 or 220 the rocks have a darn nice polish. I have been skipping the clean out and just adding AO 14,000 and running it for 24 hours. Machine runs 3 days, no stopping. Killer shine. Doses for 14 pounds: 2 tablespoons AO 80 or 220 with 2 tablespoons Borax with 4 tablespoons water. Add water as needed, rarely do for the 2 day run. 1 tablespoon AO 14,000 and 1 tablespoon Borax and 2-4 more tablespoons water for the last 24 hours. The wetter Borax slurry has yet to inject that damn Borax or Aluminum oxide into the pits of my rocks. I have started rocks over in the rotary due to that problem. Don't even try to clean them, consider them trashed. Re-grind them.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2016 6:47:01 GMT -5
mikeinsjcJust did 3 of the above cycles with out cleaning out or shutting down. AO 220 to AO 14,000. Was doing bigger rocks(2-3") and simply removed them on the fly. By the end of the third 220/14000 add I ran out of rocks and shut it down and cleaned out. Some batches I ran the 14,000 2 days. Machine stayed on for 11 days. Did 18 pounds of rock, but had 8 pounds of pea media the whole time. 6/8 + 6/8 + 6/8 = 18 pounds rock/8 pounds media. Media was pea sized quartz pea gravel and small agates that has been reused a dozen + times. Also added 1/8 inch almandine garnets in the media, about 25%. They seem to add to the polishing surface area at voids.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Dec 1, 2016 8:53:59 GMT -5
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