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Post by tims on Nov 9, 2016 21:05:07 GMT -5
With that encapsulated 1/3 HP motor freezing should not be an issue. Have run mine down to 25F. 3600 RPM motor a serious heater. However heat is my problem as it is in a greenhouse. Hot here. Has to be in shade. At 100F ambient the rocks get so hot they are almost unbearable to the touch. So real hot. Motor gets hot too, which is not good. Motor has been running for over a year with what sounds like a dry bearing. So the overhaul. Never had any Mohs 7 rocks get damaged unless there was too many big rocks. My Viking does not do softer rocks. It wants to frost them. There are adjustments but I never had luck slowing it down for say rhyolite, glass or obsidian. I believe the counterweights are supposed to be set at about 1.2 for the 14 pound hopper. Have you checked their setting ? With a good mix of stones to 2 inches I use no media. If say running 8 pounds of only 1.5 to 2 inch stones I use 6 pounds of pea sized media. Too cheap to use ceramics so I just use small quartz and agates. What type of rocks are you running ? I have not even checked the counterweight setting ... meant to ask about that but somehow it completely left my mind. Got my ceramic today and topped off the load with about 1.5 pounds each of the small and medium, so my 10 pound starting load was a little light. Ceramic is pricy so I hope it holds up through multiple tumbles. I should have filled the hopper up initially instead of going by weight as it's running noticeably quieter and smoother now. I had to use 3 good Tbsp of 220 to get everything covered with all the extra surface area.
As for material i'd say 80% jasper / agate / pet wood / quartz, and the rest is unidentified material that looked to have good hardness. There are a few pieces that I know are softer material, some little teepee chunks with softer matrix and more unidentified but obviously softer material just to see what it'd do. I thought I got some detailed pics of the batch before it went in but this is all I can find, and I think there was another pound or so of smaller stuff that got added after this:
I was really nervous about completely destroying the first batch so I only used stuff I was ready to lose, which in hindsight is probably a terrible way to sort a batch, even if it's the first.
Rolling along again now, still set up 3 feet from my bed, and will probably just keep running it in the house and turn it off to sleep as i'm nervous about running it unattended. Did I mention I get nervous a lot?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2016 2:29:21 GMT -5
I would not put ceramics in with those, ceramics best for finishing and delicate rocks. That is a nice size and hardness of rocks to run by themselves and they have a long way to go. Your Viking should easily deal with those as they are without any media or filler. Maybe 20% for void fill at most.
Next to your bed, well, that is OK for non-sleep hours my friend.
I see why you need a box to cover it with for putting it outside. I suppose you could put a cardboard box over it and cover it with some roofing tin and a weight. Cut ventilation holes in it as needed, don't let it get too hot. You are in cold territory I believe ?
Will you get a rotary tumbler for doing the shaping ?
I ordered a motor today from Diamond Pacific. Figured that would set me back at $301 ! I bought mine used for $150 and has run a lot of rocks, totally justifies new motor. Mine was not near in the shape yours is. But the operating components look fine. I believe the starting winding is damaged on my motor according to GE as I have to roll start it with a push with my finger. And that was getting more difficult(to roll start). May attempt rebuilding old motor.
If I had a spare unit i was thinking about doing a serious mod, replacing the 1/3 HP with a smaller motor for doing the 14 pound hopper. The 1/3 HP motor can run a 35 pound hopper and is way overkill for a 14 pound hopper. Uses a lot of electricity.
Set that thing up outside Tim.
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Post by tims on Nov 10, 2016 19:04:20 GMT -5
I'm still on the fence about a rotary; at the moment i'm not concerned with final shape as long as they're smooth.
And I used to be in cold territory lol ... Northern Wyoming is usually winter by now but it's still t-shirt weather this year. I don't think it's got down to freezing at night yet which is very uncommon. Through the winter though yeah, it should get cold ... teens - 30s are pretty normal for December through March with stretches in single digits / subzero. Still, the vibe generates enough heat that ventilation is probably still necessary in a small enclosure. Am thinking maybe an insulated plywood box with a top with that's slightly elevated and bigger than the box, with edges that overhang the box so it can vent / circulate air without holes to let the sound escape directly.
Next batch i'll try to fill the hopper with rock instead of padding it with ceramic, but will probably still use a bit of the small stuff for getting into crannies. I've discarded a lot of quartz gravel that now I wish I had back for filler but there's more where that came from.
Keep us posted if you do go with a smaller motor as it sounds like a sensible upgrade if it works ok.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 12, 2016 5:27:55 GMT -5
To prevent the Viking from separating bigs and smalls I found round and oval quartz pea gravel served as 'ball bearings' and prevented the separation best. The ball shape made the rocks roll faster, the faster they roll the less separation. Took a long time to figure that one out.
That separation thing is a problem. Been thinking and looking for a Lot-O shaped hopper to mount on the Viking to prevent separation. Or a shorter fatter tub like 1/2 of a 35 pound hopper. The wide narrow shape of the 14 pound hopper invites the separation. They sell two 4 pound hoppers that also mount on that base.
That base concept that accepts a variety of hoppers is a cool option. The big motor comes with the package though.
Whatever containment you use consider ventilation and a thermometer. Digital thermometers come cheap these days and are smart. Hi/Low temp recording for instance.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 12, 2016 5:42:33 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of ceramic media. It is way harder that Mohs 7 and seems to break grit down too fast. The quartz(or agate) pea gravel is softer and wears adding protective slurry to the mix. Pea gravel is cheap and eventually wears down and must have more added to it though. I keep two 8 pound batches of pea gravel in alternation. At this point pea sized agates have been slowly replacing the quartz. Media is getting beautiful. One batch of the media is now about 70% agate.
You should pick up some aluminum oxide 80 for smoothing rough rock. It will remove material from your rocks fast and then break down to a nice pre-polish. Or use SIC 80 to shave material off them. That hopper is designed for SiC 80.
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Post by broseph82 on Nov 12, 2016 14:10:46 GMT -5
Viking is great for all that has been mentioned. However, when I add my 2 tablespoons of 60/90 I only add 1/2c sugar and a full cup of water. A full cup of sugar and it doesn't roll right. Seems to stop the load after 24hrs and they just sit and vibrate. Using just 1/2c they stay wet and roll the whole time at a faster rate. Depending on the level of where you wanna take the tumbles, I have done a load at 60/90 and went to straight AO polish and they came out rounded and super shiny. I think the polish kept them wet for a good 4 days but one load I did it dried out after that and I didn't even know it. So def check in on it every day. I don't even stop the machine. Just unscrew the lid while it's going and check.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 12, 2016 15:35:49 GMT -5
Viking is great for all that has been mentioned. However, when I add my 2 tablespoons of 60/90 I only add 1/2c sugar and a full cup of water. A full cup of sugar and it doesn't roll right. Seems to stop the load after 24hrs and they just sit and vibrate. Using just 1/2c they stay wet and roll the whole time at a faster rate. Depending on the level of where you wanna take the tumbles, I have done a load at 60/90 and went to straight AO polish and they came out rounded and super shiny. I think the polish kept them wet for a good 4 days but one load I did it dried out after that and I didn't even know it. So def check in on it every day. I don't even stop the machine. Just unscrew the lid while it's going and check. 39don used to do the same with coarse SiC and go straight to polish. Sugar rate may depend on settings too Jimi. Glad you got it dialed in.
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Post by tims on Nov 12, 2016 19:15:51 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'll pick up some pea gravel and i've got SiC 80 but was afraid to use it. Next run will be 80, sugar and pea gravel and we'll see if it shapes up. I've got materials for a box lined up and should be able to cobble it together tomorrow and start running again outdoors. The thermometer is a good idea as well, although for now i'm on the fence about running nights when i can't keep an eye on things. I'm a bit insomniac but when i do get to sleep, a flaming vibe jumping around with one belt probably wouldn't be enough to wake me.
I put together a cleanout station today, just an old washtup with drain holes with crushed charcoal covered with 50# of sand. Old piece of screen over that to shake everything while rinsing with the hose gets the major goop off easy and the tub drips out clear water instead of blue.
I've only got about 72 hours total in so far so i've got a ways to go. Oh and regarding separation, i haven't noticed an issue there yet but i've been cleaning out and recharging every 24 hours so they might not have had time. Flats sticking to the edges have been evident.
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39don
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Post by 39don on Nov 13, 2016 3:57:18 GMT -5
[/quote] 39don used to do the same with coarse SiC and go straight to polish. Sugar rate may depend on settings too Jimi. Glad you got it dialed in.[/quote] Hi Guys, I'm still doing the Sic 90 for 7 to 10 days then final polish, 2 teaspoons tin oxide, for 2 to 3 days. As a matter of fact I have a load of tiger eye going now,my first ever. I readjusted the off sets to .8, no crazing as yet but close. When running it this slow you can run it wetter with good rotation and good sic dispertion with only 1/2 cup sugar.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2016 5:29:11 GMT -5
39don used to do the same with coarse SiC and go straight to polish. Sugar rate may depend on settings too Jimi. Glad you got it dialed in.[/quote] Hi Guys, I'm still doing the Sic 90 for 7 to 10 days then final polish, 2 teaspoons tin oxide, for 2 to 3 days. As a matter of fact I have a load of tiger eye going now,my first ever. I readjusted the off sets to .8, no crazing as yet but close. When running it this slow you can run it wetter with good rotation and good sic dispertion with only 1/2 cup sugar. [/quote] Hi Don. Hope all is well. Had to send for another motor for Viking @ a little $301. Dry bearing and apparently a bad starting winding. Still doing a 2 step eh ? Wonder if .8 will do obsidian ? I had success with obsidian a couple of times at about that setting. Had failures too. Had to go thru the grits to get a polish though. Never escaped a few bruises though.
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39don
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by 39don on Nov 15, 2016 0:53:58 GMT -5
39don used to do the same with coarse SiC and go straight to polish. Sugar rate may depend on settings too Jimi. Glad you got it dialed in. Hi Guys, I'm still doing the Sic 90 for 7 to 10 days then final polish, 2 teaspoons tin oxide, for 2 to 3 days. As a matter of fact I have a load of tiger eye going now,my first ever. I readjusted the off sets to .8, no crazing as yet but close. When running it this slow you can run it wetter with good rotation and good sic dispertion with only 1/2 cup sugar. [/quote] Hi Don. Hope all is well. Had to send for another motor for Viking @ a little $301. Dry bearing and apparently a bad starting winding. Still doing a 2 step eh ? Wonder if .8 will do obsidian ? I had success with obsidian a couple of times at about that setting. Had failures too. Had to go thru the grits to get a polish though. Never escaped a few bruises though.[/quote] Hi James, I sure hope my motor don't go bad, $301 is a good hunk of change. I believe .8 will be too much for OB, possibly somewhere .4 to .6, just guessing. I believe I will be dropping back down to .5 to get what I want on this tiger eye.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2016 7:01:51 GMT -5
Hi James, I sure hope my motor don't go bad, $301 is a good hunk of change. I believe .8 will be too much for OB, possibly somewhere .4 to .6, just guessing. I believe I will be dropping back down to .5 to get what I want on this tiger eye. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/76632/first-batch-started-viking-vt?page=3#ixzz4Q4rq6ioQNever did drop below .8 Don. Good to hear that and makes sense because it frosted glass media and obsidian at .8. And more so at 1.2. The motor is hard to find being such an old motor. Called several motor houses and no-go. Dayton made a copy of it but it is not continuous duty go figure. Maybe there is a supply out there some where other than Diamond Pacific's inventory of spares.
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Post by tims on Nov 15, 2016 9:52:29 GMT -5
Well I got rolling again about 4pm yesterday --- my load lost a lot of volume and it ended up about 3/5 rocks, 2/5 pea gravel with 1 cup sugar, 1/2 cup water and 2 tbsp. 80 grit. Checked it every few hours until about midnight, gave a spritz although everything seemed to be circulating ok, then went to bed. My little box keeps it pretty quiet, about the noise level of a window AC unit. Anyway, checked it when I got up about 7 and the load had frozen up, I tried adding water and stirring it up to get it going again but it had turned into a thick batter that refused to roll. In the midst of a full cleanout now, was afraid it might have chewed up the bottom of my hopper but everything looks ok. It must have done some rolling through the night as all the rocks looked noticeably rounder. I'm thinking I've got too much pea gravel to have so much sugar ... once the grit starts to break down and it muds up the whole mess turns into cookie dough. I don't have much more material on hand to cut back on pea gravel so i'm going to try again with very little sugar or maybe none, and try to keep a better eye on it.
A question re the 80 grit ... do you guys do cleanouts and restart with fresh grit (and if so how often), or add grit occasionally, or just run it to mud and keep going with it?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2016 13:04:54 GMT -5
Well I got rolling again about 4pm yesterday --- my load lost a lot of volume and it ended up about 3/5 rocks, 2/5 pea gravel with 1 cup sugar, 1/2 cup water and 2 tbsp. 80 grit. Checked it every few hours until about midnight, gave a spritz although everything seemed to be circulating ok, then went to bed. My little box keeps it pretty quiet, about the noise level of a window AC unit. Anyway, checked it when I got up about 7 and the load had frozen up, I tried adding water and stirring it up to get it going again but it had turned into a thick batter that refused to roll. In the midst of a full cleanout now, was afraid it might have chewed up the bottom of my hopper but everything looks ok. It must have done some rolling through the night as all the rocks looked noticeably rounder. I'm thinking I've got too much pea gravel to have so much sugar ... once the grit starts to break down and it muds up the whole mess turns into cookie dough. I don't have much more material on hand to cut back on pea gravel so i'm going to try again with very little sugar or maybe none, and try to keep a better eye on it. A question re the 80 grit ... do you guys do cleanouts and restart with fresh grit (and if so how often), or add grit occasionally, or just run it to mud and keep going with it? First of all go with 1 TABLESPOON. Two tablespoons of coarse SIC is a quick mud maker. One tablespoon is a mud maker. Mud is good, but not too much too fast. SiC 30 or 80 is about done in a few hours, like 2-6 hours depending on media hardness and rock hardness. Yes, fast at 1.2 setting anyway. That's why I say you can stay away from hard ceramic media in that machine as the rocks alone crack the hell out of coarse grits quickly. Loss of volume ? Good thing. Wearing rocks. If your rocks are less than 1.25 inches you should not need any pea gravel if they are Mohs 7 rocks. No need to waste grit on grinding pea gravel if you don't need their protection. I use 1 cup water and 1 cup sugar. 1/2 cup water is to thick for me. At least for coarse grit. Probably OK for fine grit. One cup water and one cup sugar has never given me a mud lock up using 1 tablespoon coarse grit. On hot summer days I have used 2 cups sugar and 2 cups water, or 1.5 and 1.5 better. 1:1 water:sugar ratio controls thickness. Higher water content makes slurry more watery(ha, makes sense). If you are going to go from coarse grit to polish then you need to run at least a week to break grit all the way down. Not sure if you are shaping or going into prep for polish.
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Post by tims on Nov 15, 2016 15:25:14 GMT -5
Holy cow, 2-6 hours? NOT DAYS? lol. OK. No wonder they looked so different today.
I wrote that water / sugar ratio wrong, it was 1 cup sugar and a full cup of water, plus probably another 1/2 cup as it rolled.
I guess i'm just going for shaping if I don't need to run it for days and days, as I am extremely anxious to call this first batch done. Not a good mindset for tumbling i'm sure. Been working on fence all day and haven't got things completely cleaned up yet but that' my plan from lunch and go from there.
Thanks Jim (etc. etc.) for the ongoing help.
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Post by tims on Nov 15, 2016 17:06:35 GMT -5
Was wondering if the .8, 1.2 etc. is in reference to the counterweight setting? If i'm reading mine correctly it's 1.4, or 14 ticks between the hole and where the weights intersect. 1.1 if you go from the opposite direction:
Either way it sounds too high. After cleaning things up a bit the rocks still look pretty rough. 72 hours with 220 followed by 17 hours with 80 --- here's the full load with pea gravel:
And without:
The overall shapes are rounding but there seem to be lots of nicks and dings that weren't there to start.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2016 19:52:45 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2016 19:55:02 GMT -5
Holy cow, 2-6 hours? NOT DAYS? lol. OK. No wonder they looked so different today. I wrote that water / sugar ratio wrong, it was 1 cup sugar and a full cup of water, plus probably another 1/2 cup as it rolled. I guess i'm just going for shaping if I don't need to run it for days and days, as I am extremely anxious to call this first batch done. Not a good mindset for tumbling i'm sure. Been working on fence all day and haven't got things completely cleaned up yet but that' my plan from lunch and go from there. Thanks Jim (etc. etc.) for the ongoing help. Yes, it happens fast. Cut back on the grit as mentioned.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 15, 2016 20:05:23 GMT -5
My serial number is 701. Bet that is the 701th sold. What is your serial number ? The motor mounting bolts were rusted bad. I used a grinder to remove them. New motor on the way. Had to heat the aluminum pulleys to get them off.
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Post by MrP on Nov 16, 2016 7:28:14 GMT -5
My serial number is 701. Bet that is the 701th sold. What is your serial number ? The motor mounting bolts were rusted bad. I used a grinder to remove them. New motor on the way. Had to heat the aluminum pulleys to get them off. jamesp I know you weren't asking me but I had to look, Mine is #132. Must b an early one..............................MrP
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