notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Jan 5, 2018 12:35:33 GMT -5
hmm I wonder how long the screens will last vibing sic through them.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 31, 2017 14:37:08 GMT -5
certainly civilizations have used wood fired cupila furnaces to make iron from ore for centuries. most of the time they made the wood into lump charcoal first. Wood is not a practical fuel for a kiln. Imagine how big and nasty it would have to be. Making charcoal out of wood is even more time prohibitive. They would bury large stackes of wood and set it on fire letting it smolder and half burn, then dig up the charcoal. Can't imagine anyone doing that today. Instead of buying oxygen look into an oxygen concentrator. The only thing I buy now is propane for torches, and argon for the tig. some blacksmiths still use hardwood charcoal in forges today. period correct demonstrations. and use a charcoal retort to make coal. I personally attended a 3 day demonstration about 15 years ago at a museum where we buried the wood to make charcoal harvested next morning and loaded a clay cupila melted down ore extracted the bloom and spent day 3 consildating it into a chunk of wrought.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 31, 2017 9:29:22 GMT -5
I know a lady in WY who has maybe 40 barrels of rock, a good portion of which is tumble grade. I thought about making her an offer on all of it (no idea how I would move it), and began to wonder how much it would actually cost to tumble a barrel. I would use five 40 lb lortone rotary units for 60/90 and 600#, then go to a 50lb Viking for 800# and TXP polish. Here are my assumptions; Grit costs per barrel per cycle: 60/90 $2.50/lb. x 4 lbs 600# $4/lb x 4 lbs. 800# $4/lb. x 1/4 lb. (vibe) TXP $7/lb. x 1/4 lb. So 800 lbs rough/40 lbs per load= 20 loads in rotary for 60/90. I assume a loss of about 30% after rough.=560 lbs. net left for the rest of the cycles. The 600# cycle would then be only 14 loads. Through 600# takes a month (3 weeks + 1 week), so it would take about 4 months total time in the rotaries. This is an important number because of electricity costs. Without boring you with the math, my total grit costs are; 60/90 $200; 600# $224; 800# $19; TXP $38. So, total grit costs to polish 800 pounds of rough (finishing with 560 lbs) would be %481. The interesting number is the power costs. At the least, it will cost me $125/month to run those five rotaries. I have done this for a long time, so I know this number is real. These are CA electricity rates. For 4 months, there is another $500. That's probably conservative. Now we are at a total cost of $981 for 560 lbs of finished material. Transportation costs. Renting a trailer going into CA is cheap. I could rent a trailer cable of carrying two barrels for about $150. I would have to haul the material to CA to process it, the back to Montana to sell it. Trailer costs going out of CA are stupidly expensive, because everyone in their right mind wants out of this state, so probably $300 to haul the stuff out, $450/2= $225 per barrel trans costs. Adding the trans costs, we are at $1206 for 560 ponds of finished material, or about $2.15 per pond. Obviously missing are the equipment maintenance, the back-breaking labor involved in loading and unloading, lifting a 40 lortone barrel (which weighs 75 lbs. with grit and water) nearly 70 times, and gas. My conclusion is it is illogical to figure you can tumble for less than $3/lb. Which means you need to get at least $6/lb for your stuff. Oh yeah, this assumes she gives me the rock for free! What would you give for a barrel of tumbling material? I know it depends on what it is- lets say Montana moss agate, or west Texas agate or WY petrified wood. A buck a pound for a barrel seem fair? Now you need to get $8/lb. retail. No wonder they call it a hobby. so let me get this straight your gonna tumble 800 lbs of rock and only use 100 lbs coarse grit? (assuming average price for grit at 100 dollars per 50 lbs bag) especially with them hard agates or silified pet wood. sounds like not nearly enough coarse grit to me.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 29, 2017 19:04:37 GMT -5
Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code. Eeesh! $148! Can a wood fired kiln be hot enough? 1600°F or so? certainly civilizations have used wood fired cupila furnaces to make iron from ore for centuries. most of the time they made the wood into lump charcoal first.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 29, 2017 10:59:19 GMT -5
I keep threatening to speed mine up but haven't gotten to it yet.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 19, 2017 23:39:11 GMT -5
old dryer motor
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 19, 2017 12:14:23 GMT -5
This is my favorite tumbler ever posted. And I have seen many. Renascence/vintage comes to mind. profile views
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 19, 2017 9:50:42 GMT -5
I have a flange screwed to the pvc with an opening that the flat cap mates to with wingnuts to tighten. I cut them with a router and dremel. but it does turn very easy. I get it. I see your design and nicely done. How many of those barrels are you running ? 8 inch sch 40 PVC ? 8 inch cant remember sch about 3/8ths thick wall iirc. 4 barrels 1 6" long 2 7 inchers and an 8. don't ask why the different sizes lol.
|
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 19, 2017 0:16:22 GMT -5
We used that same pipe (8 inch) to pump a slurry of sand and water up 40 to a vertical classifier. Water at 2000 gal a minute mixed with sand at a little less than 0ne ton per minute. It took almost 1 month for the 90 degree bend at the very top to become old faithful. I have to investigate what the mines are using to pump their slurry. Slurry at fairly high pressure is hard duty Billy. Here is some abrasive comparisons of mine slurry pipe materials. ultra high molecular weight polyethylene is boss. I'm coming up on 1 yr (feb) of tumbling with my 3/8ths uhmw caps using bulk sic. on my load end removable cap ill be lucky if I have 1/32 wear. [/quote]
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 15, 2017 0:07:22 GMT -5
I found a whole set of them in the junkyard along with the base vibrator. He wanted $100 for the whole rig. system not cheap when new. Just pour in the bulk at top and it separates it to sizes down the line. You can get them cheaper in plastic. james it wont wrk like this the 80 grit will get caught in the 100 screen. lol
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 13, 2017 12:47:31 GMT -5
if you can accomplish the "frying pan" method that would work too but you have to get heat all the way around both mating surfaces evenly and clamp together fast enough to weld. coming up on that heat slowly should allow some of the surface imperfections to flow and seal up. I would think you will have to get the flat end cap pretty flat to assure your getting it up to temp evenly. I would ditch the frying pans and just put 2 chunks of clean steel on the burners. but then again maybe you need the Teflon to keep it from sticking idk. haven't welded a lot of plastic.
if you can perfect the frying pan meathod you can do a whole barrel in 3 easy welds. 1 weld end cap on 2 weld reducer pipe on 3 weld reducer to barrel
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 13, 2017 10:14:40 GMT -5
I would not leave any of the smaller pipe sticking inside the end cap you will never be able to dump it out. running a soldering iron around it will not heat deep enough to weld much below the surface. treat it just like you would steel. bevel anywhere you cannot put a weld on both sides.for a tumbler barrel they probably wont need to be beveled all the way to the root 100% penetration welds either.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 13, 2017 1:16:35 GMT -5
325F in a convection oven is about max. The aluminum foil was just starting to stick to it. A non-convection oven is probably better. convection gets the surface hotter. Never could get it to fold, not enough strength in hands. Went ahead and quenched it out on the deck with half a 5 gallon bucket of water whilst standing on it. Now it can be reheated and bends finished. Need a a slot out on the deck to get leverage, like a metal brake to finish final bends. Takes forever to cool down, but quenches very quickly. Could saw the circle roughly and it would be easier to bend. Or cut pipe in half instead of thirds so you could get the center area flat. looks like you got that one about flat enough you could probably cut out a circle and use bar clamps to suck it in tight to the pipe and weld. I would definetly treat it just like a weld in steel and bevel the pipe. tack in lots of spots and lay a root and fill passes.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 12, 2017 23:57:30 GMT -5
you cant tell me you don't have 2 chunks of steel and some c clamps!
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 12, 2017 11:47:38 GMT -5
if It were me I would see if I could cut a piece into 3 chunks lengthwise put it in an old oven between 2 steel plates to put weight on it and see if you can flatten it out make your own flats out of same material. bevel ends of pipe and just get a cheap harborfreight plastic welder. if you have acess to more you could even cut thin strips out and have filler rods of same material. the hf plastic welders just shoot out a stream of hot air. I bought 1 years ago to weld an abs motorcycle fairing. kinda similar to brazing but different lol. wont be the fastest thing in the world but if your going to get years of service out of it who cares if it takes a whole day to weld up a barrel. on the load end you could bore out a hole slightly smaller than your 6 or 4 inch pipe outside diameter and put a nice fillet weld inside and out. just like you would do if you were making it out of steel.
or you could do what I did and put a piece of rolled rubber roofing, innertube, ect in as gasket and screw ends on with drywall screws. which would allow you to use different materials like pvc pipe with the correct od for your fernco caps. my uhmw end caps have bulged right out and never leaked.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 12, 2017 1:18:09 GMT -5
all I'm gonna say is I sent james a box of grit and he sent me a box of rios and some coral. turns out the box of grit was only worth 25 bucks. one of us made out like a bandit. hehehe
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 8, 2017 10:28:20 GMT -5
"The photo is deceptive. Apparently the fines settled to the bottom of the bags. When transferring to 16 gallon steel drums it was obvious that separation of size had occurred. It has the same composition of sizes as the box you sent."
yeah its weird in the 3000 lbs bags all around the outside is a high concentration of the large chunks. not really like settling though almost like when they fill the big chunks roll down the hill to the outside edges.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 8, 2017 10:20:58 GMT -5
you need to try a barrel of sifted vs straight out the bag. weigh rocks going in and coming out. all other variables the same. and see if its worth even separating it.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Dec 7, 2017 23:58:08 GMT -5
This batch has more bigger 3/8" particles than the 50 pounds I got from notjustone . I prefer the bigger. Perfect time release when rolling a hammer stone or tumbling 1 to 2.5 inch rocks in rotary even w/thick slurry. is there any fines in it or at least a considerable amount? would not surprise me at all if they screened out the different sizes and sold as abrasive.(think sic belts and wheels.) and sold the big stuff as metallurgical. size doesn't matter to much if your throwing it in a furnace. I was going to screen mine out but read a post somewhere that the guy weighed stones after each grit and the smaller grits actually removed more weight. so just load it as is. word of warning it will wear out the cheasy lid on an ar-12 barrel in just a couple loads lol.
|
|