Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,981
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Post by Tommy on Sept 27, 2022 18:48:36 GMT -5
To summarize, Etsy is forcing sellers to submit their bank account information (including login information and password) over to an unsafe third party app called Plaid who has been at the heart of several lawsuits for unethical practices regarding stealing personal information. Etsy is doing this for so-called bank account verification. Experts are warning that by doing this you are giving this Plaid company access to your bank account records from the very beginning. Talk about insidious... There is ZERRRRRO chance that I'm going to comply with their demands and I'm going to delete my cabochon site and as soon as they start pressuring me to comply on the RTH Store I'm going to delete that as well. Some people who are choosing to keep selling on Etsy are getting around it by creating a throw-away or 'burner' bank account - and I actually have one of those already but the fact that they are demanding this and MILLIONS of people are blindly complying is too much for me. I'm out. Interesting reading from the Indie Sellers Guild which I joined today after getting into a tizzy over the Etsy thing. indiesellersguild.org/what-to-do-if-youre-out-of-time-on-plaid/ |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 27, 2022 19:14:06 GMT -5
Boy that sure sounds to me like it should be illegal. I don't blame you if you delete your accounts. I wonder how many people will actually comply and how many will delete their accounts. It seems to me that if enough people get hosed by Plaid, there's going to be a huge class action lawsuit in the future.
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Post by Pat on Sept 27, 2022 19:38:38 GMT -5
I used to sell my jewelry through Etsy. Quit when they wanted to be my bank.
Was considering joining again, but under the circumstances you describe, I have no desire to be a part of it.
Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by drocknut on Sept 27, 2022 20:20:31 GMT -5
That was a good read, thank you for posting that. I haven't gotten a message from Etsy yet but I'm sure it is only a matter of time. I don't make a lot of sales on there but I do make some. I also have a shop on a newer selling platform called goimagine. I might just have to move all my listings there. I am not about to give some possibly shady third party access to my business bank account. If anyone wants information or decides to join goimagine.com let me know since I can give you a code for a free month.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 27, 2022 20:41:08 GMT -5
Wow, I've just spent the past week of 12-14 hour days trying to update and revive my Etsy store that's been inactive for nearly 2 years due to my interstate move and associated distractions. This is terrible news. Somewhere there must be a much less greedy and more trustworthy site for small craftspeople like us. I'm really going to have to think hard about continuing with Etsy,though I'm in the process of transferring to a new bank account where I can keep a small balance that won't give me much exposure to hanky-panky. Going to do some serious research on Plaid. I can't believe this move by Etsy is legal. Very high-handed stuff. Edited to add a big "Thank you!" to Tommy for posting this. |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Sept 27, 2022 21:07:27 GMT -5
About a year and a half ago eBay starting sending me messages that they were requiring sellers to give our bank account info to a third party. I ignored it until the deadline,then through the extension they gave up until they canceled all of my listings for not complying. There was no way that I was going to give a third party my banking info. IMO that is just asking for problems from hackers or eBay scammers. I considered opening a small account at a different bank than where I do my normal banking just to use for eBay and may at some point need to do that. But at this point I still have not been able to bring myself to stomach doing so. I use to check eBay listings in specific categories a couple of times a day, and made frequent purchases off of eBay. But since then I seldom go on eBay at all. As my chow chow mix would say..."fluff em".
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 27, 2022 21:27:14 GMT -5
Those bastards!
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Post by Pat on Sept 27, 2022 21:38:42 GMT -5
Hmmm. Just thinking—- RTH has a BUY SELL TRADE section. I think.
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Post by catmandewe on Sept 27, 2022 21:53:16 GMT -5
Hmmm. Just thinking—- RTH has a BUY SELL TRADE section. I think. Yes, but you dont feel right charging RTH people the same as you would charge the general public. Tony |
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Sept 27, 2022 22:35:20 GMT -5
Tommy I think you are making an intelligent decision. Sadly, companies like Amazon, EBay, FB, Etsy, etc allow people to sell via their platforms as it works best for THEM. *smh Thanks for keeping us informed.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Sept 27, 2022 22:50:26 GMT -5
As a side note, I think if I were going to create a separate bank account to transfer income to, I'd either create several new accounts to stretch out the money trail confusion, or I'd open an offshore account, or some other creative solutions . Etsy, Plaid and the IRS will have no problem tracing a simple transfer from one account to another, so will your account numbers really be hidden?
On another sad note, if you've never googled your "name" and "email account, phone number, etc." you might turn on your VPN and see what comes up. It may surprise you just how much information companies have on us all.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 27, 2022 23:25:11 GMT -5
Thanks for letting us know, Tommy. I've never sold on Etsy, but have an account there and have bought plenty. I can see I need to visit my favorite sellers, and buy some stuff before they hang up the towel? Wondering if eBay and other selling sites will be forced to follow suit? We all know the reason behind this... |
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Post by liveoak on Sept 28, 2022 7:08:46 GMT -5
Have you had any luck selling on there Diane ?
Wanting to know if it's worth all the effort involved in doing listings ??
Patty..... who gave up Etsy & Artfire years ago when they let in overseas sellers.
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Post by fernwood on Sept 28, 2022 8:03:34 GMT -5
I quit buying off Ebay when they required a credit card on file.
I never even thought about selling on Etsy, due to the charges and requirements.
Hoping that the new move by Etsy will result in a loss of sellers.
Hope that no one who continues to sell there has their bank account compromised.
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electrocutus
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2020
Posts: 341
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Post by electrocutus on Sept 28, 2022 8:27:28 GMT -5
There is absolutely no valid reason they can have to require your login information to your account. They can validate your account without this information. Other businesses handle this by just requesting your account info (NOT the login details), and then deposit a token amount (like $0.07) that you can then confirm. It's as simple as that.
This sounds ridiculous!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
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Post by jamesp on Sept 28, 2022 8:45:03 GMT -5
Wells Fargo will openly tell you to limit the amount of funds in a high traffic checking account by transferring from checking to saving account regularly to keep the checking account with minimal balance. Wells Fargo is all about security yet they say this ? Two ETSY accounts under this roof. We will avoid going thru Plaid until the non-communicative ETSY hopefully pressures us to. At that point we hope to communicate our concerns with ETSY. Maybe by then ETSY has received many seller concerns about this matter. Thanks for the heads up Tommy. You would think that they(Plaid) would attack high volume sellers. How many attacks can they get away with before the gig is up ? Related: www.ecommercebytes.com/C/abblog/blog.pl?/comments/2022/8/1661457788.htmlPS Put gold in your safe only to have robbers hold a gun on you to rob you. All wealth is at risk. We have no idea what happens to our personal info in the digital world. Nothing has changed. There is no guarantee your wealth is secure. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,981
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Post by Tommy on Sept 28, 2022 10:44:18 GMT -5
I flat out refuse to hand over my banking account password period, ever, and I'm offended that they are doing this and that so many poor folks are being forced to comply or have their livelihoods suspended. I personally am not in this position - my cabochon shop has been closed since the beginning of the year.
People are talking about complying with the order and turning over their password then quickly changing their password after the verification occurs. My question is how long does it take a computer auto-bot programmed with the exact operations of a bank's website to scrape every detail of five, ten, twenty? years of financial information data, purchases, deposits, etc.? I'm guessing it only takes seconds to minutes. We know about what the googs and fbs are doing and how much money they make off our online activities, where we go and what we buy, can you even imagine how much Plaid stands to gain by selling the data from entire checking account histories?
I don't think I mentioned it earlier but they are only coming after my cabochon page at this point. If they come after the RTH Store then that will be the end of that venture because I refuse to comply under any circumstances. The RTH Store is already depositing revenue into a 'burner' checking account, not our finances account, but I still refuse. If it comes down to that maybe I'll open up a small scale e-commerce page for shirts and mugs on the new website that is coming. It's an option available.
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Post by vegasjames on Sept 28, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5
There is absolutely no valid reason they can have to require your login information to your account. They can validate your account without this information. Other businesses handle this by just requesting your account info (NOT the login details), and then deposit a token amount (like $0.07) that you can then confirm. It's as simple as that. This sounds ridiculous! I think this has more to do with the new tax laws. Our new government is spending money like crazy, funding the war in Ukraine for personal gain. forgiving student debts that the public will end up paying for, etc. This is all driving up inflation and they keep wanting to spend more. They need a new source of income though, so they are now looking at all bank accounts with more than $600 in transactions per year to tax.
They already have places like Ebay and Amazon acting as illegal tax collectors. Taxes are not supposed to be applied on out of State purchases unless the company has operations in the State the purchaser is from for the collection of that State sales tax. Yet they automatically include a State sales tax on all purchases. To what State is that sales tax going to? And what is the rate since for instance here in Nevada each County has a different sales tax rate?
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Post by vegasjames on Sept 28, 2022 17:23:42 GMT -5
As a side note, I think if I were going to create a separate bank account to transfer income to, I'd either create several new accounts to stretch out the money trail confusion, or I'd open an offshore account, or some other creative solutions . Etsy, Plaid and the IRS will have no problem tracing a simple transfer from one account to another, so will your account numbers really be hidden? On another sad note, if you've never googled your "name" and "email account, phone number, etc." you might turn on your VPN and see what comes up. It may surprise you just how much information companies have on us all. I think the idea is self defeating.
For one, the new tax laws they are trying to impose will tax any account that has over $600 in transactions in a single year. $600 is nothing. Someone may get that much or more as a Christmas present. and gifts up to a point are not supposed to be taxable. Not to mention that if you deposit your paycheck and it is over $600 in a year then your paycheck that has already had taxes removed can be taxed again if my understanding of this new law is correct. From what I understand, the taxing of the account is based on the transaction amount in the account for the year, not the source of the money.
And regardless, many banks charge a monthly maintenance fee if the account drops below a certain level even one day out of the month. My bank charges $7 a month maintenance fee if the account drops below I think it is $500 even 1 day within the month. Having multiple accounts with minimal amounts of money will just rack up bank fees.
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Post by vegasjames on Sept 28, 2022 17:32:43 GMT -5
Wells Fargo will openly tell you to limit the amount of funds in a high traffic checking account by transferring from checking to saving account regularly to keep the checking account with minimal balance. Wells Fargo is all about security yet they say this ? Two ETSY accounts under this roof. We will avoid going thru Plaid until the non-communicative ETSY hopefully pressures us to. At that point we hope to communicate our concerns with ETSY. Maybe by then ETSY has received many seller concerns about this matter. Thanks for the heads up Tommy. You would think that they(Plaid) would attack high volume sellers. How many attacks can they get away with before the gig is up ? Related: www.ecommercebytes.com/C/abblog/blog.pl?/comments/2022/8/1661457788.htmlPS Put gold in your safe only to have robbers hold a gun on you to rob you. All wealth is at risk. We have no idea what happens to our personal info in the digital world. Nothing has changed. There is no guarantee your wealth is secure. Of course Wells Fargo wants people to have multiple accounts because Wells Fargo charges fees on all those accounts. So they make more money off of a person by getting them to create multiple accounts:
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