pizzano
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Oct 2, 2022 18:54:34 GMT -5
And that’s exactly the intent. It’s the discouragement of business. Make it such a hassle people don’t want to do it anymore. It’s such a shame. The killing of the great American dream. Even though I pay more taxes under the current tax laws (and as someone who has most of his income from social security it is not fair), increasing the standard deduction saved me a lot of work scrounging for deductible nickels. The lowering of the amount where electronic payments get reported was part of the covid stimulus package to help pay for it. An overly honest person would have reported their income, taken their deductions and paid appropriate tax. I would have preferred that the amount was lowered less. It really isn't about profit or loss, it is documenting the transaction. Here's an example. I bought $3,000 worth of portable oxygen generating equipment (for COPD) and I will sell it on ebay for less, Say $2200. Paypal will report the $2200 to the IRS. When I file my taxes, I report the $2200 and then take a corresponding deduction assuming I can find adequate documentation. Here's another example. Someone buys $5,000 worth of merchandise at yard sales and sells it on Ebay for $18,000. Under the old rules, the income isn't reported and the person is running a business and not paying taxes. Now the income gets reported. I sell cabochons as part of the hobby and as long income is greater than the costs to produce, the costs associated with selling and additional taxes. If I were selling to help with living expenses I would be unhappy because of the additional documentation required. You lost me...... ."I sell cabochons as part of the hobby and as long income is greater than the costs to produce, the costs associated with selling and additional taxes. If I were selling to help with living expenses I would be unhappy because of the additional documentation required."
So, "Federal" net operating losses are taxed higher than capital gain taxes........maybe more paperwork, but where's your diminishing return....?.......Sorry, I'm not really a "successful business man" as it relates to/for capital gain. However, I've never heard of a loss being penalized greater than a gain in our tax system........?......hobby or otherwise. |
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Post by stardiamond on Oct 2, 2022 19:18:57 GMT -5
I thought I made it clear. My only goal that after taxes, my hobby is self funding, not a business.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Oct 2, 2022 20:33:19 GMT -5
I thought I made it clear. My only goal that after taxes, my hobby is self funding, not a business. Got it.....un-reported capital gain......income that supports the cost of providing for the hobby.....without overstating fixed income attribute allowances........Just fired my taxman, me.....! |
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Oct 2, 2022 23:39:20 GMT -5
And that’s exactly the intent. It’s the discouragement of business. Make it such a hassle people don’t want to do it anymore. It’s such a shame. The killing of the great American dream. Even though I pay more taxes under the current tax laws (and as someone who has most of his income from social security it is not fair), increasing the standard deduction saved me a lot of work scrounging for deductible nickels. The lowering of the amount where electronic payments get reported was part of the covid stimulus package to help pay for it. An overly honest person would have reported their income, taken their deductions and paid appropriate tax. I would have preferred that the amount was lowered less. It really isn't about profit or loss, it is documenting the transaction. Here's an example. I bought $3,000 worth of portable oxygen generating equipment (for COPD) and I will sell it on ebay for less, Say $2200. Paypal will report the $2200 to the IRS. When I file my taxes, I report the $2200 and then take a corresponding deduction assuming I can find adequate documentation. Here's another example. Someone buys $5,000 worth of merchandise at yard sales and sells it on Ebay for $18,000. Under the old rules, the income isn't reported and the person is running a business and not paying taxes. Now the income gets reported. I sell cabochons as part of the hobby and as long income is greater than the costs to produce, the costs associated with selling and additional taxes. If I were selling to help with living expenses I would be unhappy because of the additional documentation required. I do agree. Anyone with an actual business set up ought to already be tracking expenses and income and filing taxes on the lot of it. Really, this new $600 max reporting criteria hits hardest those who are not actually running a business. People just selling off used things from home to make ends meet. Not flippers and not resellers. Just selling things used that they already paid taxes on once before. Now, they have to somehow find documentation of their original expenses, or claim current value, just to keep from paying taxes on the sale of the items again. Either they lose their time and spend hours on this documentation or they forgo that and pay more in taxes. Either option just takes away from their selling efforts, and unfortunately makes the whole effort questionable as to worthwhileness. It removes their incentive to work harder for themselves and discourages self-sufficiency. I know a lot of people in this boat, myself included, who would like to make the jump from basically online garage sale-ing (there really is a lot to be learned and this is a great way to start) into an actual online business. But that desire has to be weighed against the ever-increasing mounding bureaucracies piled onto small businesses every year. Rather than encouraging enterprise, it's instead discouraging people before they even get started. These are the people I'm hurting for. I think we have definitely traveled down the rabbit hole towards what I guess is considered the entrance to the Cave on this forum. So back onto the original topic, I really do hope to see people finding ways to continue their small online businesses within the lapidary field. I support them whenever I can. I just got a couple really nice slabs from a disabled veteran seller on ebay. I'd hate for the new platform criteria's to be the reason people shut down. |
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Oct 2, 2022 23:55:04 GMT -5
I thought I made it clear. My only goal that after taxes, my hobby is self funding, not a business. Got it.....un-reported capital gain......income that supports the cost of providing for the hobby.....without overstating fixed income attribute allowances........Just fired my taxman, me.....! This part I am still unclear on, and honestly I have NOT done my full research on this, but the little bit I did "learn" was this: If you are doing a hobby, with the intent to sell your items, then technically it's now a business. So... even if you just want to sell in order to bring money back in specifically to be able to do more of the hobby, and not even to create profit, my understanding is that's still a business because you've sold something. This info I got from an accounting firms online question and answer blog. Maybe it's more nuanced than that and maybe my understanding is not complete. Once I read that though I figured well if this is something I want to do, then I've got to go all in and start a business, not just sell here and there the things I've made. So, in the meantime for online selling practice, I've stuck with just selling used items from our home for now. |
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Oct 3, 2022 0:16:21 GMT -5
As I suggested in Tella's "I'm Done With Etsy" thread a couple of years ago... forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/90755/etsy"Have you folks ever considered doing a co-op site for selling cut stones? Once the initial costs of such a site like that being setup is completed, keeping it online shouldn't be too expensive. Keep it limited and quality controlled and I could imagine the potential to grow exposure without costly advertising could be done with properly labeled photos of cut stones that would appear in the searches for images on Google, Pinterest, Instagram, etc.. Just typing off the cuff here but it may be something to think about." Look at what Sam Silverhawk was able to achieve with his independently owned site. www.samsilverhawk.com/gems1.htmlSam isn't as active these days as he used to be. But back in the day he drew a lot of traffic to his site and built a large following of buyers by offering quality photographs of quality material cabochons. Photos of cabs so gorgeous that hundreds of Pinterest and Instagram users saved his cabochon photos to their social media pages which were linked to Sam Silverhawk's selling platform. So much so that when doing an online search of any specific material cabcohon, and then clicking on the "images" link for the search results, nearly always Sam Silverhawk's cabs were well represented. It was free advertising. And once found, buyers of cabochons will return to any source of quality material as long as the cabs are photographically well represented and are priced fairly. As they have continued to do with Silverhawk's site. Most of his cabs are priced in the $45 - $60 range and each batch usually sells out within a few hours of listing. Again...something to think about. Silverhawk was a rockstar on ebay with a lot of fans. It made sense for him to have his own site. He hasn't listed anything for 5 years. My wife collected cabs and that is how I got into the hobby. The best place I know of to sell cabs outside Etsy is the cabs and slabs facebook page www.facebook.com/groups/539242229527605Etsy makes it easy to sell and since I am doing this as a hobby, I'm not concerned with maximizing income. Do I like Etsy? No. I believe ebay is worse for a seller. I have some excess slabs and ebay is preferable to Etsy for selling them. I like ebay a lot as a buyer. Always loved Sam Silverhawk cabs! Such gorgeous material. Has he really not listed for 5 years? I was on there a while ago and the website is active as of 2022, all "new" cabs are showing as sold, but I was just thinking I should check back later. I did think it odd though that his previous years sales pages stopped in 2017. That facebook group that you posted above has a nice selection. I have never seen anything like those intarsia style cabs that "Reshape Nature" has listed. Very interesting, but it does look like the material might be some sort of an agregate almost. |
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,987
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Post by Tommy on Oct 3, 2022 8:22:06 GMT -5
As much as I hate to sort of come to Etsy's defense, this change was mandated by the Feds. Etsy screwed up by pushing Plaid on everyone when they didn't have to. You aren't really coming to Etsy's defense - you are summarizing what this thread is actually about. The specific change that I posted about was absolutely not mandated by the Feds. This is 100% ETSY's fault - they made a deal with the devil. YOUR personal information and banking (spending) records in exchange for a "verified" bank account to satisfied whatever the Fed mandate is. Etsy and no other selling platform that I have heard of has made the same decision to FORCE Plaid and their extremely invasive, and hopefully illegal, practices on their sellers when they didn't have to. They STILL don't "have to" but they have dug in their heels and don't appear to be changing. This move is also 100% about profiting from YOUR bank records if you hand over your username and password to Plaid. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Oct 3, 2022 10:55:45 GMT -5
thoughts if you don't trust Plaid
Anyone use Venmo connected to their bank account ? Don't. Or only use it to pay friends and family if connected to bank account.
Or get a 'Venmo' bank account from a DIFFERENT bank than your primary.
Or better yet pay the 3% and connect it to your credit card if you desire insurance.
People can buy on ETSY with a credit card.
But ETSY income is sent to the seller's bank account.
Perhaps you should get an 'ETSY' bank account be sure to get it from a different bank than your primary.
Emphasis on "from a different bank than your primary"
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2022 9:58:49 GMT -5
Curious if you took a chance on Plaid Tommy ? Geez, looking at getting a Plaid burner account, what a pain. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,987
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Post by Tommy on Oct 8, 2022 10:03:26 GMT -5
Curious if you took a chance on Plaid Tommy ? Geez, looking at getting a Plaid burner account, what a pain. No way - I let my account get suspended. Like I said earlier I have a burner account already but just out of general principle I will NEVER give Plaid a bank account number and password, period. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 8, 2022 11:13:29 GMT -5
Curious if you took a chance on Plaid Tommy ? Geez, looking at getting a Plaid burner account, what a pain. No way - I let my account get suspended. Like I said earlier I have a burner account already but just out of general principle I will NEVER give Plaid a bank account number and password, period. Tommy, I was talking to a good friend of mine about this. She has an Etsy store and I was telling her about this thread. She said she did NOT give Plaid her username and password for her bank account. She would NEVER do that and she has an accounting background. She said there is a way to authenticate your account without giving that information where they send 2 small deposits to your account (like $0.12 and $.08) and you have to verify the amounts. That's it. You do not have to give them your info. That is the same way Square verified my account when I first signed up. I would still link it to a burner account, but there is no way they can get your username and password from the above method. There's got to be a link to this method in really small fine print somewhere because she used it. Just an FYI. Tagging jamesp too. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 8, 2022 11:17:59 GMT -5
No way - I let my account get suspended. Like I said earlier I have a burner account already but just out of general principle I will NEVER give Plaid a bank account number and password, period. Tommy, I was talking to a good friend of mine about this. She has an Etsy store and I was telling her about this thread. She said she did NOT give Plaid her username and password for her bank account. She would NEVER do that and she has an accounting background. She said there is a way to authenticate your account without giving that information where they send 2 small deposits to your account (like $0.12 and $.08) and you have to verify the amounts. That's it. You do not have to give them your info. That is the same way Square verified my account when I first signed up. I would still link it to a burner account, but there is no way they can get your username and password from the above method. There's got to be a link to this method in really small fine print somewhere because she used it. Just an FYI. Tagging jamesp too. That's how PP used to do it, too. Don't know if they still do. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 8, 2022 11:37:19 GMT -5
Tommy, I was talking to a good friend of mine about this. She has an Etsy store and I was telling her about this thread. She said she did NOT give Plaid her username and password for her bank account. She would NEVER do that and she has an accounting background. She said there is a way to authenticate your account without giving that information where they send 2 small deposits to your account (like $0.12 and $.08) and you have to verify the amounts. That's it. You do not have to give them your info. That is the same way Square verified my account when I first signed up. I would still link it to a burner account, but there is no way they can get your username and password from the above method. There's got to be a link to this method in really small fine print somewhere because she used it. Just an FYI. Tagging jamesp too. That's how PP used to do it, too. Don't know if they still do. They do. I just verified a new bank account with PayPal this way...two small deposits...and immediate withdrawals (by them) of the two. |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2022 12:32:51 GMT -5
That's how PP used to do it, too. Don't know if they still do. They do. I just verified a new bank account with PayPal this way...two small deposits...and immediate withdrawals (by them) of the two. I've done that many times as well, when setting up direct deposits to my checking and savings accounts. Never had any concerns about it. Sign of the times. Even my health insurance this year wanted me to give them bank information, presumably so I can pay our premiums automatically? No way in hell! I don't pay any bills automatically. They can see my bank name and account when I pay from the account. That's all they're getting. I mostly pay with bank debit card, unless they are going to charge me a fee to use it. Like property taxes coming due next month. Uggh. Now, account numbers and passwords, not just no, no way in hell! |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,987
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Post by Tommy on Oct 8, 2022 13:13:51 GMT -5
There's got to be a link to this method in really small fine print somewhere because she used it. Just an FYI. I have heard this as well and I searched for the option but could not find it. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,987
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Post by Tommy on Oct 8, 2022 13:30:25 GMT -5
Also, I'm pretty sure the account I use on my cabochon page was already verified using small deposits way back when I added it to my Etsy account in 2015. Literally thousands of transactions later now they need it verified lol. The whole thing is so ridiculous on so many levels. The shop is closed anyway so who cares.
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 8, 2022 15:02:00 GMT -5
There's got to be a link to this method in really small fine print somewhere because she used it. Just an FYI. I have heard this as well and I searched for the option but could not find it. I downloaded "How to Update and Verify Your Bank Account for Etsy Payments." There's a section that's headlined "How to Manually Verify Your Bank With Test Deposits." It says: "As an alternative to entering your uasername and password for online banking you can verify your bank account with your bank account routing and account numbers. Plaid will send 2 small test deposits to your bank account. Once you see the test deposits in your bank account, you can go back to the Plaid popup in your payment settings and enter the amounts." I don't know how safe this method is but it seems to accord with the me0htod posted by hummingbirdstones . Comments? |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2022 17:02:48 GMT -5
I have heard this as well and I searched for the option but could not find it. I downloaded "How to Update and Verify Your Bank Account for Etsy Payments." There's a section that's headlined "How to Manually Verify Your Bank With Test Deposits." It says: "As an alternative to entering your uasername and password for online banking you can verify your bank account with your bank account routing and account numbers. Plaid will send 2 small test deposits to your bank account. Once you see the test deposits in your bank account, you can go back to the Plaid popup in your payment settings and enter the amounts." I don't know how safe this method is but it seems to accord with the me0htod posted by hummingbirdstones . Comments? Rick gemfeller - that is a standard procedure. Have done it many times with different companies and banks. No problems doing so to date  . |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2022 17:18:26 GMT -5
Also, I'm pretty sure the account I use on my cabochon page was already verified using small deposits way back when I added it to my Etsy account in 2015. Literally thousands of transactions later now they need it verified lol. The whole thing is so ridiculous on so many levels. The shop is closed anyway so who cares. - you know who to thank for all the newly required banking changes... They scrutinize the people supplementing their meager incomes with a few bucks here and there (so that they can pay their bills and buy food with this deflated money), while ignoring the major players who are not living paycheck to paycheck. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 8, 2022 17:18:50 GMT -5
gemfeller that should be just fine. As long as you're not giving anyone your bank account username and password, they can't access your account. I did have to reverify my information on my Square account because they have to send out 1099-Ks, but I didn't have to re-do the small deposit thing.
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