"Metaphysical Properties" of Stones

snagging a good seat to enjoy the show

Ingest bread mold to cure an infection? Willow bark to cure a headache? Until synthesized into penicillin and aspirin respectively, those might have sounded pretty crazy too, <grin>.

I guess I find it easy to believe that we still don't know everything about everything. There may be something to it, there may not be - but I don't guess that anyone can really prove or disprove it either one.

And there is also belief...faith, which can't be discounted. Belief in the efficacy of something can lead to it in fact being effective for that particular individual, whether it's effective to the general public or not. The placebo effect is well-documented enough that drug trials are conducted double-blind - so that neither doctor nor trial subject knows who is getting the real thing and who is getting an inactive placebo. If someone believes that it (whatever 'it' may be) works, for them it well may work - even when there's solid evidence that it shouldn't work (as with placebo medications that contain no active ingredients whatsoever).

Just my $.02...

I don't guess that anyone can really prove or disprove it either one

The burden of proof is theirs'. Until they can prove any of their claims, there's nothing to disprove.

The placebo syndrome does not apply. They aren't ingesting rocks into their bodies. If they were, this would be an entirely different discussion.

If we drag faith into this discussion, it's going to turn religious, which is a whole different issue and definately best left alone unless we want WWIII on this forum. This is about rocks alledgedly having metaphysical properties, not whether people "have faith" that they do.

This is pretty much my take on it. I like to keep an open mind about things that cannot be proved or disproved.

Ask any artist that sculpts in rock or clay and they will tell you that the stone and clay "talk" to them -- they tell you how they want to be carved, shaped. What they want to be.

But I guess that's hooey too.

Personally, if someone wants to disbelieve or feel people are gullible for believing it, that's fine. However, shouldn't we at least show a little respect for people's beliefs -- and they are spiritual beliefs, btw -- and not make fun of them? Or is anyone who follows something off the beaten path open for target shooting?

Eileen

Michaeljohn... I have to disagree on the placebo comparison. MY thoughts are that's exactly what is going on with the metaphysical crowd. If it works for them, more power to 'em I reckon. The one "rock shop" in my area has a major metaphysical side to it and I can't think of many better ways to kill a couple hours than going in there and evesdropping on their "this stone helps with fill in the blank" conversations. I never fail to leave there thoroughly amused.

AMETHYST ... APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD

Come on, you think this HEAD ON stuff really cures headaches by applying it to your forehead? What are we frogs now and absorb "medicine" via osmosis through our skin?? Yet with the number of commercials that I see for the product, someone must be buying it. Hook, line and sinker...

Stonewizard... I have so much sodalite because I got a good deal by buying 55 gallon barrels of it straight from Brazil. Had I found the same deal on chrysocolla out of Peru, I would have bought that instead. What's sodalite supposed to help with anyway?
I do agree with you that this discussion might be best held in a different area of the forum.

IF all this metaphysical stuff has any truth to it, I'll probably live to be 150 and die in perfect health, because there aren't many types of rocks that i don't have. So, I have that going for me!

OR, does it only work if I believe it will...?

There's no place like home

There's no place like home

There's no place like home

< tapping heels together >

All that said, I don't know everything or understand everything (who does?) so I don't disregard what others believe. Whether I chose to agree is a different matter.

I recently applied and got approved to sell at the metaphysical shows in Colorado Springs and Denver. They required references. They do that to all readers and dealers. They want to be sure you are not going to rip people off or convince them that they need to deposit all their money in your bank account. The only requirement is not to discourage anyone in their beliefs.

I believe a lot in the Native American beliefs in turquoise which there are many. Anything from medicinal qualities to good luck to a show of wealth. I have post traumatic arthritis in many places of my body. In particular my wrist. I haven't been wearing my bracelet much and it is paining me. Of course I've been doing a lot of cutting on my 8" grinder without a proper height chair so that has something to do with it. Placebo? Maybe. I know my wrist hurts worse when I don't where it. I haven't had it shot with cortisone in over 7 years. Before that it was every 6 months.

So, I hope to do a metaphysical show this year and see what they are like. I want to have plenty of polished stone to sell. And of course jewelry...

OK. Fire away....

Rick

Crystal power is a faith. Faith is illogical.

Mineralogy is a science. Science is logical.

Faith and science need to be kept separate, yet the crystal power nuts continue to infect mineralogy and the blind believers contine to storm the ramparts of science.

If you study minerals, and collect them seriously, and love the hobby and the science, when people make untested and absurd claims about healing properties, and make a fortune selling utterly erroneous "instructional" books on the subject, it drives you mad. Are common sense, logical thinking, and skepticism entirely dead?

Maybe the poor rubes buying into crystal power don't actually realize this, but the folks selling you on this faith are actually pretty dumb about minerals and mineralogy. They don't know how to spell the names of minerals. They don't know the definition of a mineral.

Just how dumb are they? Well, quartz comes in a multitude of habits and colors, and apparently each one will cure different ailments. But they're all basically SiO2... so that's just silly, isn't it? Not to mention the idiots that ascribe healing properties to minerals that are nice and toxic, with lead, mercury, or even arsenic in them... you really sure you want to soak a poisonous mineral in some water, and then drink the water? That seem pretty smart to you?

Here's a little test you could do at the metaphysical fair: ask to borrow a copy of "Fleischer" and see what response you get. Any serious mineral person will know what that is. It's kind of a bible for hardcore mineral collectors. Wouldn't you expect a good preacher to know his bible? Why don't these scumbags know the first thing about minerals? Odd indeed.

Stating that crystals have healing power is false advertising! I hate liars and con artists that rip off stupid people. This is outright fraud, and sadly, it thrives in America, where science and skepticism are dirty words.

People need to apply just the tiniest bit of skepticism to this subject. But being skeptical is a terrible thing, and skeptics are all nasty people, right? But wait! Aren't you skeptical when buying a used car? Or do you believe it was only driven on Sundays by it's previous owner, a little old lady? Do you believe politicians are honest and really care about you, or are you skeptical? Do magicians really make elephants disappear? Do you think multinational corporations are on your side... OR ARE YOU SKEPTICAL?

Take a pinch of that good, natural skepticism that you apply in so many areas of life, and use it when you're thinking about rocks with healing properties.

Does your doctor ever prescribe polished stones, or crystal wands? How come? How many years has he spent in university, busting his ass to learn about disease? You know how smart you have to be to get through med school?

Next time you get a headache, and go to the drugstore for some aspirin, ask for some sodalite, or a nice agate or some sunstone. Not available? That's odd. No "healing stones" in a place that SELLS MEDICINE. Maybe they don't have any medicinal properties? Wouldn't big drug industries be selling crystals by the ton if they worked for anything?

In reliable, PEER-REVIEWED journals of science, has anybody described these mystical emanations and vibrations? Why not? If you KNOW it's true, start experimenting and write it up. There's a million dollar prize waiting for you! Please do us all a favor, and get in touch with James Randi to collect your prize. Pass a simple test. What are you waiting for? Prove that you have special powers! Go here: www.randi.org/research/index.html

Crystal power people drive me nuts because blind faith is antagonistic to science. Science trumps stupidity every time, and this enrages the con artists, because it is a threat to their nice fat income. Yet illogical faiths are so easy to debunk that a sixth grader could devise an experiment. Look up the meaning of a double blind test and give it a try (bearing in mind that they are con artists, and know all the tricks.)

Believers in metaphysics and ghosts and chakras and new age trash actively hate on science, and that really pisses me off. They know nothing of science, yet they are amazingly active and vocal in their ignorance, and man do they hate science. Yet, oddly... they owe everything to science!

Faith didn't manufacture that monitor you're looking at. It didn't make your clothes or your car. The chair you're sitting in... nice and comfy? Science perfected rubber and fabric manufacture, not to mention ergonomics. House nice and warm? Metaphysics didn't install the ductwork or figure out how to turn rock into wool for insulation. Roof keeping the rain off your head? Well the freaks at the metaphysical fair sure as hell didn't come up with any truss designs, and they didn't figure out what kind of granules work best on shingles.

Science did it. We owe everything to science! Science is a wonderful thing. It's not confined to ivory towers, you can do it in your basement, and its wonders are endless!

So look the word up in a dictionary, and show it some respect. And take your absurd faith somewhere else, mineralogy doesn't need to be sullied by the likes of crystal power preachers that don't even know how many sides a quartz crystal has.

PS - If you find the above terribly offensive, you need to grow up. If you're old enough to be surfing teh interwebs, then by god you're old enough to get a bucket of cold water thrown in your face. Trust me, it's healthy.

PPS - And if you still believe in crystal power after reading all of that, please get in touch asap! I've got this fabulous new bracelet that will cure all your problems, and it's only $3,000. Hurry, quantities are limited!

SirRoxalot

Roan, I can see you're a little upset. I'm not insulting or criticizing anyone's spiritual beliefs. I'm only attempting to address, just as the thread title says, "Metaphysical Properties of Stones". The issue is that people claim that stones have various profound effects on the human body. Peoples' spiritual beliefs aren't in the stones themselves, the stones are simply a tool that they've been led to believe works. If you saw a carpenter trying to drive a nail with a marshmallow, would you be apprehensive in telling him that the tool he's using won't get the job done?

Oriongal, you said it yourself, "the person's belief that something works causes it to actually work". That's exactly my point! The stones are just another trinket to sell in the little new age "wellness" centers, along with incense, scented oils, tarot cards, etc. How many people that buy stones for their "metaphysical properties" can say that they know for a scientific fact that the stones are doing what they are rumored to do? Also ask them if they think that the stones are really giving them benefit or if their BELIEF that the stones are "performing as rumored" is providing the benefit. Perhaps just having the questions asked of them will encourage them to think about it in a rational manner.

I studied Tai Chi in Cincinnati. Classes were held in an old house, on the second floor. On the first floor, the teacher and his wife had a "new age" shop. I met and listened to a lot of people there, and eventually I quit going there due to the intense NEGATIVITY that was there. The "new agers" all had something in common ... they were desperately searching for spirituality. They had never found what they were looking for in churches or religions, and hoped they'd find some "stuff" there that would somehow fill that empty void. They just couldn't seem to figure out that they needed to stop looking outside and start looking inside. It was really depressing to experience, watching people "shopping" with desparation on their faces, as they looked for that special trinket that just might make a difference in their lives. So, please bear in mind that I'm not putting these people down for their "beliefs" or for their searching, I'm simply exposing one of the many money-making hoaxes used by the "new age" item sellers, as they prey on those who are mostly "lost".

The only thing that was upsetting me was the constant ganging up on people that believe in this type of thing -- which I see you caught. I find it unfair, to say the least. You could apply the same logic to blasting almost any of the organized religions, yet I don't see anyone attacking the Catholic faith, for instance. Wanna buy some Holy Water?

Belief is belief, whether it's perceived as "religion" or spirituality. Those people whom you say were not looking inside themselves . . . that makes me feel very sad because part of the "core" of this belief IS to look inside oneself.

As for Mr. Rox's rant --

I love your med school comments, because I just found out recently that my family doctor of nine years is first level reiki . Surprised the hoo-ha out of me. When I asked him why on earth he was working on his reiki levels, he told me that he had been a doctor long enough to know that not everything can be explained by science and to close one's mind to other possibilities -- such as healing energy -- was to cease to continue to grow as a doctor.

Eileen