Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 12:37:47 GMT -5
Take for example the tar sands that Canada is digging out of the ground and extracting the oil out of it. One of the most polluted places on the planet. I just caught the tail end of the TV show about it and wish I would have seen it all. If Canada will not take care of their own country think about what they will try to get away with here.
The people that make the gas to propane conversions for cars and pickups are probably working around the clock to keep up. Propane, the gas of today and tomorrow. Maybe if we can get converted from gas to propane in a much larger area of the country Canada can sell all of their oil to China. Pumped to their west coast like it should be. Jim
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jockstrap
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2011
Posts: 56
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Post by jockstrap on Feb 11, 2013 19:24:52 GMT -5
Yes diesel more expensive. yes we use liters. yes we still use miles. When you're an old fart like me, it gets confusing. I paid £1.41 per liter for diesel I guess I got the maths wrong.
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Post by parfive on Feb 11, 2013 20:55:31 GMT -5
Arithmetic close enough, Jock. Wrong gallon.
£1.41/liter = $8.36/US gallon = $10.04/Imp gallon
when £ = $1.566
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 12, 2013 12:01:07 GMT -5
The election has nothing to do with why I don't like the idea of the Keystone. Top of the list being that it doesn't benefit the US, it benefits Canada and China. Now why would the US want that? Your silly reasoning of 'it would create more jobs' would hold better water if there were more people in the oil business looking for work... but that field is already short qualified employees, and they aren't going to hire disabled people to work on the pipeline anyway. So what jobs? Unless out of desperation for skilled workers, they start putting ads in Saudi Arabia for muslim oil workers, who's going to get jobs in a field that are already short skilled workers? For that, we should let Canada pollute its way across the US? You didn't read this did ya Helen. I highly dought that the US refineries would allow the cruce they buy to go to china when they can save millions on importing costs of tankers bringing the the Middle east and Hugo's oil. JACKIE L LARSON | QMI AGENCY HOUSTON, TEXAS -- With Alberta bitumen languishing for want of pipelines to refineries and tidewater, on the other end of the proposed TransCanada Keystone XL pipeline, the Texas Gulf Coast is crying out for Canadian crude. Over a plate of steaming crawfish at Houston's Ragin' Cajun, David Holt, president of the North American-based Consumer Energy Alliance, says hope for the Keystone's a bi-national thing: Canadian crude is already America's number one energy partner, so a conduit to bring the safe, abundant, reliable supply of energy -- and some needed job revitalization -- into the Gulf Coast is essential. "The bottom line is not only jobs being created in the energy sector from the Keystone pipeline, potentially, but jobs being created in all sectors of the U.S. economy and particularly on the Gulf Coast. We've seen over the last several decades a decline in jobs, so there's a lot of folks who are very anxious to get the pipeline approved, to have these jobs brought back to Texas and keep the economy going," he says. With 2.2 million miles of pipeline already criss-crossing the United States, the Keystone extension's 1,700 miles represents not even 1/10 of 1% of the pipelines already in existence. So what's the hold up? Like other Keystone supporters, Holt wants to know. "They're ready, they want it to happen, Texas wants this to happen, all the states along the corridor have expressed a strong desire for the Keystone pipeline to be permitted and we're waiting for this administration to finally do the right thing and get this pipeline permitted," Holt says. " We're waiting for the Obama administration to do the right thing and listen to the vast majority of the American public who say 'We want this pipeline,'" he says.
It's economic survival in Canada, where between bottlenecks and gluts, the gap between what Alberta crude fetches compared to the world market has sent Alberta and the federal government scrambling for spending cuts. North Dakota now produces more oil than Alaska and they're nipping at the leader Lone Star State's heels -- but without enough pipeline capacity, it bottlenecks. A million barrels of oil from North Dakota's Bakken formation ships east by train each day. A pipeline spur from the Bakken to the Keystone would bring oil to the Gulf Coast refinery complex where 70% of American refining has been done for a century."There's multiple ways to transport oil and natural gas from point A to point B. Pipelines are by far the safest mode, far safer than truck traffic, far safer than rail traffic, far safer than shipping. What TransCanada and the Keystone pipeline have proposed is multiple steps safer than any other pipeline that's ever been constructed," says Holt. "This is a state-of-the-art operation that's taking the entire industry up to the next level, to bring this much-needed energy down to the Gulf Coast where it can make jobs." John Durkay's been in the industry for decades. General counsel to the Southeast Texas Plant Managers Forum, he sees the pipeline as a solution all the way around. "I hope it is built because we're going to get a lot of good crude oil from a good friend. We don't have to worry about having to travel half-way across the world, we don't have to worry about the politics of oil," he says. Miles and miles of refineries clustered around the Gulf Coast are raring to work on more Canadian crude.
"By golly, as much crude as Canada has to sell, we'd like to buy and make it into gasoline. That's just what we do. We don't have any problem with a discussion about the issues of transporting it. It's certainly a whole lot better to transport it by pipeline than by any other method," Durkay says.
A match made in crude heaven
Alberta bitumen and Texas Gulf Coast refining infrastructure is a match made in crude oil heaven.Kenneth B. Medlock III, a fellow in energy and resource economics at Rice University's Baker Institute and senior director of the Center for Energy Studies, says new American oil development -- the Bakken and Eagleford formations, Permian Basin -- produces light, tight oils. Alberta crude can use Gulf Coast infrastructure without capacity overhaul. "It's nice that we're seeing a production renaissance in the U.S. and in North America more generally, because crude oil production has increased year-on-year since 2008, and that's not happened since the late 1960s. You're talking about a step change -- but if you can't refine it, it dilutes some of the energy security benefits," says Medlock. The two nations are great partners, he says. "They have very deep natural gas ties, very deep crude oil ties, there's no real concern of Canada cutting off supplies to the U.S. Because the two neighbours are so closely tied and have a good relationship, it's a system that works to promote energy security for both countries, energy security are linked very intimately," he says. Naysayers playing the environmental card fail to take into account increased points of contact -- truck to rail to barge -- increase the odds for spills, adds Madlock. "L ook at the spill rate associated with tankers versus pipelines. It's eight to 10 times higher. What that tells you is if you can develop things domestically and utilize economies of scale, and reduce the number of touch points or transfer points for a commodity, you minimize environmental hazard. This is something that's lost on a lot of people," he says Your silly reasoning of 'it would create more jobs' would hold better water if there were more people in the oil business looking for work... but that field is already short qualified employees, and they aren't going to hire disabled people to work on the pipeline anyway. So what your telling me and all your American people that they are to stupid to be retrained? ? You must not view your fellow citizens capable of doing more than 7/11 work. As for lob creation. How many jobs are being created on Warrens railroad? Under ten. Compared to thousands for the pipeline. As for the disabled, if they able to to the work they would be hired. Take for example the tar sands that Canada is digging out of the ground and extracting the oil out of it. One of the most polluted places on the planet. I just caught the tail end of the TV show about it and wish I would have seen it all. If Canada will not take care of their own country think about what they will try to get away with here.Jim, Jim, Jim, you really are a libtard. Have you ever been there? No!! you just take the word of some propagandist greenie. Canada has tough rules and regs. Maybe read them before spouting crap out of your mouth. If any oil company conducted business like the way you say. They would be shut down very quickly and fined big time. Btw way Rich. Hows that 16.5 trillion debt working out for you? Hmmm seems to me that the more people put to work, the more taxes are being paid. But thats not the liberal way is it? I thought you would be out on a green boat by now saving some Florida beached whales. And singing cum-bi ya or something like that. Jim propane!! really!!! we being there done that already. Not a good idea. No parking in any garage for you. One leak and you will have the world trade center first attempt all over again.
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Post by parfive on Feb 12, 2013 12:18:14 GMT -5
Cool. In recent days, we’ve heard from insane asylums in Israel and Northern Mexico. Thanks for making it a hat trick, Bushman. ;D
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 12, 2013 12:49:07 GMT -5
Cool. In recent days, we’ve heard from insane asylums in Israel and Northern Mexico. Thanks for making it a hat trick, Bushman. ;D 8-)So what did my relatives have to say? ;D
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 12, 2013 13:20:31 GMT -5
Take for example the tar sands that Canada is digging out of the ground and extracting the oil out of it. One of the most polluted places on the planet. I just caught the tail end of the TV show about it and wish I would have seen it all. If Canada will not take care of their own country think about what they will try to get away with here. Jim totallycoolpix.com/2011/01/chernobyl-25-years-later/
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 12, 2013 13:37:27 GMT -5
Hey Jim, before you look over your fence, you should look in your own backyard. Out of the 26, only one is related to oil. Number 14. www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/05/19/americas-28-most-polluted-places.htmlAs the EPA and BP fight over the Gulf oil spill cleanup, the Daily Beast crunches the numbers and ranks the most contaminated sites in the nation. The BP oil rig explosion has led to untold millions in lost income for people who make their living from the Gulf, but toxic hazards are an everyday occurrence: The EPA estimates that there are 3,500 chemical spills each year, requiring $260 million to clean. Above those, however, are the Superfund sites—places that have sustained major, long-term damage, necessitating years of cleanup. Established in 1980 after a series of toxic disasters, including the infamous Love Canal district of Niagara Falls, which turned the neighborhood into a virtual ghost town, Superfund has largely succeeded in centralizing hazardous waste cleanup and holding responsible parties financially accountable. The BP fiasco—both a natural and human disaster—got us thinking: what are today’s most polluted toxic dumping grounds? To figure it out, we examined all available Superfund data from the Environmental Protection Agency. We filtered the results, focusing on sites that remain dangerous for human exposure and sites that have dangerous ground water.
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Post by helens on Feb 12, 2013 13:47:11 GMT -5
Right, Billy. The Gulf is recovering from a disaster, and it's foremost in people's minds. Yet you say in bold red: "Miles and miles of refineries clustered around the Gulf Coast are raring to work on more Canadian crude."
So is your news source on crack or simply schizophrenic?
Raring to go to do it again? HAAARRRRR. No.
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bushmanbilly
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Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 12, 2013 13:53:37 GMT -5
Right, Billy. The Gulf is recovering from a disaster, and it's foremost in people's minds. Yet you say in bold red: "Miles and miles of refineries clustered around the Gulf Coast are raring to work on more Canadian crude." So is your news source on crack or simply schizophrenic? Raring to go to do it again? HAAARRRRR. No. www.qmiagency.ca/I didn't see BP's name in the 26 sites once. But I seen GE's a few times.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Feb 13, 2013 8:26:24 GMT -5
They say it's not the speculators fault but a lot of it is. All they do is watch charts. When they reach good support levels they all pile$ into it. When everyone starts screaming about high prices and it appears it can't go higher they sell. And then they wait to repeat the process.
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garock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,168
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Post by garock on Feb 13, 2013 17:58:49 GMT -5
It seems to me that the high gas prices are the result of political payback by the President !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 23:45:17 GMT -5
Filled up yesterday. $2.89 I hate to be rude to some of you that are paying quite a bit more but we are not seeing it here. Wish you could all say the same.
I used to do propane conversions and vehicles were parked in garages. We had not problems because we taught the people not to be stupid and pay attention. Amazing how that works.
Tar sands, a movie is worth a thousand words. Jim
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 14, 2013 0:18:22 GMT -5
Wow Jim, $2.89 is a price we haven't even seen around here in Texas. It got down to about $3.10 for just a bit but it has shot back up to about $3.40 in just a few weeks. Never forget when I was moving to Texas a few years ago and we hit that high point. Man it was over five bucks in some places on the trip *L* and I made the trip back and forth like four times hauling all my rocks and such from Commiefornia....Mel
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cherdarock
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2012
Posts: 140
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Post by cherdarock on Feb 14, 2013 3:01:07 GMT -5
We are down to 3.95-4.00 a gal. here in Cali.
Fracking nat gas is great, but it just means heating the house doesn't eat all the money you need to drive the car...lol
Take and develop an inexpensive way to pull hydrogen. Cheap enough to make hydrogen the obvious fuel choice. Chances are that when you go to patent it, it has already been patented. Research patents and revamp one or more patents into a new and efficient technology. Watch how fast oil/gas lawyers show up. Why? A) Oil and/or fossil fuels tech is already in place. There is no desire to have it suddenly become obsolete until B) The control over the new technology is in hand.
Hydrogen is a future fuel. The abundance is the drawback. Methods of producing it either cost great amounts in power, or if chemically produced, it requires refining, which again, gets expensive.
The wet dream would be to put ordinary water in a fuel tank, and have it extract the hydrogen, for use, utilizing some of that hydrogen to drive the extraction apparatus. Seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen and the oxygen provides the ability for the hydrogen to burn at full potential.
Think we could drain the pacific ocean powering our world?
Who cares? We have oil, and there will probably be wars fought over the last drops. Even if hydrogen becomes a fuel source.
Wait! WHAT? petrochemical technology plays a large part in our plastics industry. We live in a very plastic world, with no other resource that even comes CLOSE to competing.
Meanwhile the larger problem becomes those who are in control of our resources because they OWN IT. The world is now steadily working towards producing the first TRILLIONAIRE. A single person who has tens or hundreds of billions has far greater power than you would want to believe, and if you don't think they influence or manipulate the world markets, I would like to try some of what you have in YOUR pill bottle.
The markets flunctuate out of price and demand? Perhaps. That is certainly a factor, but they are more influenced by wealthy individuals steering profitable opportunity and they can be subject to chaotic problems because there are many wealthy individuals with different aims, or ideas, and the profitable results rarely dovetail without casualties. Those casualties are the stockholders by and large, and we the common folk are the source of green where there is demand. Only what is it we demand? We demand what we are provided by the wealthy.
Yes there are exceptions, and there is far more to it than this forum is prepared to digest.
Do you like diamonds? Even the private diamond mining companies or interests have to play to D.B. They have absolute control over the gem trade and markets. They take great pains and go to unseen and unheard lengths to maintain that control.
There are few Governments that have control over large wealth. But there are many Gov.s INFLUENCED by that same wealth.
England is my favorite wealthy government country. God SAVE the QUEEN! Does anyone in England even care that the ROYAL FAMILY lives off of the toil of the common tax paying Brit, yet does NOTHING to EARN SUCH LUXURY? The Queen isn't the ruler anymore. Its a royal family and the royalty gives council to the people who run the country? Mel Brooks nailed it, "It's GOOD to be da KING!" Try to borrow a couple quid from the old girl, she wouldn't give you her spit.
How did the banking industry manage to elude Gov. controls while building huge financial houses of cards with flimsy unsound loan practices? Did ALL the banks go under? NO! Our Gov.s LOANED them billions of dollars the banks already controlled, and a few big financial giants became sacraficial lambs in a power/money play that is STILL being deciphered and studied. Rest assured, the only real losers were us, and despite the reports that even the wealthiest people and powerhouses lost billions, are they BROKE? Check your Forbes for a comical view of fortunes. We were shocked about the "Bonuses" and the audacity, and the other reports. What we didn't see was where the money has settled. GEE! WHY NOT?
In short, big wealth owns the news.
BACK TO GAS! Farts are the one true free energy source. man made methane. Because big oil cannot buy a population for that resource. OR CAN THEY? It is a capitalist money game, similar to the "Coal Towns" with a company store. YOU work. YOU earn. YOU spend. The wealthy OWN, CONTROL, and GROW. They provide what you want because your choice is what they provide. They will gladly pay you with money that will be given back when you buy their products.
YOU will PAY that gas price, or you will ride a bike or a skateboard. If you have a miser motor that gets 100MPG you still need to purchase gas for it. $1.00 a gallon or $10.00 and the gas companies are NOT giving your peasant whining a whole lot of priority, unless it somehow increases profits.
The world is and always has been controlled and driven by wealth. Ceasar does not feel your pain.
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Feb 14, 2013 8:33:53 GMT -5
cherdarock - nicely written
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 14, 2013 9:25:43 GMT -5
Filled up yesterday. $2.89 I hate to be rude to some of you that are paying quite a bit more but we are not seeing it here. Wish you could all say the same. I used to do propane conversions and vehicles were parked in garages. We had not problems because we taught the people not to be stupid and pay attention. Amazing how that works. Tar sands, a movie is worth a thousand words. Jim Frac-nation, a movie worth 16.5 trillion words. Jim, its because of people like you that propaganda survives. They pray on feeble minded folks to spread there lies. And looks like they found a winner with you. Next week i'm going to be working in the oilsands near Fort Mac. in the sag "D" projects. I will post lots of pictures for ya Jim.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 14, 2013 9:35:30 GMT -5
I present this following statement, if you read this and disagree or want to debate it then please sent me a tweet @ CodyinCalgary. The Canadian oil sands is the worlds most monitored, most regulated, most environmentally conscious major oil reserve within the worlds top 10 reserve countries. No man made development or industry is perfect, yet the oil sands and Canadian energy industry is making amazing strides and is always in a state of perpetual improvement on all fronts. Truth #1: The oil sands does have environmental side affects, as does every single thing human beings do on this planet, like living in a city for example. Industry is tirelessly working on technological improvements to lower its environmental impact and on improving its footprint. Great innovations have been made and with the billions of dollars being invested for environmental purposes more innovation is yet to come. Truth #2: The oil sands industry measures its success on the “triple bottom line” that is people, the environment and financial metrics. Truth #3: Oil sands industry constantly analyzes, records and tracks environmental performance as you will see in the video below. Truth#4: Canada’s oil sands accounts for 0.1% of world green house gas emissions. Truth#5: The oilsands has reduced its green house gas emissions intensity per barrel by 26% in the last 20 years Truth#6: Only 3% of the oil sands area can or ever will be mined. 97% of the total land area will never be mined. Truth#7: In the last 40 years of oil sands development only 0.02% of the Canadian forest has been disturbed. All land disturbed must also be reclaimed back to a naturally vegetative state as defined by strict environmental regulations and laws in place from the Alberta government. This process takes decades and is extremely onerous to ensure the proper techniques and reclamation is done. Truth#8: Oil sands operations recycle between 80-97% of the water used. Some oil sands companies even use no fresh water. The water used in operations is brackish and is unfit for human or agricultural use. Truth#9: The oilsands is the worlds largest democratically controlled, investable oil reserve and is the largest reserve outside of opec member countries.
Oil sands environmental monitoring in action
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 9:49:12 GMT -5
I agree, nicely written darock. There is one thing that I would like to say about kings and queens. They started out as wealthy land owners that take their pants down to crap just like everyone else. They declared themselves kings and their woman was the queen. I am sure that they invented the names from the start way back when. Now they are just people that take their pants down like we do but they can trace their linage back to that first or second land owner. You cut them they bleed. They should be no more special than the homeless and all the crap that is put in the news about them is just that, crap.
There are already wars being fought over oil. Iraq is one. The people at the top will try to tell everyone otherwise but the bottom line was always the oil. As soon as it was found out that there were no weapons of mass destruction and the people that want to destroy the USA were not involved there we should have pulled out. I will always believe that the people at the top of our government knew what was there from the start. But they went ahead and got a very large number of our service man and women killed and wounded AND spent three trillion dollars and counting of our money to accomplish it. Plus the costs of that war will still be going up sixty years from now from caring for the disabled their entire life. We could have pulled out of there early on when Saddam was taken down but the rich were getting richer by the buckets full. Just another way for the rich to take our money and put it in their pocket. The money went from our pocket into the government then it went to the rich that were making all the goodies involved in a war. It would have been much better for us if we just gave the money to the rich because there would have been way fewer of us getting killed but US, YOU AND ME are no more important to the rich than what a dog drops on the lawn. Always has been and always will be. There will always be exceptions, they are not all bad.
At one point the French revolted and put an end to the tyranny but it did not go away for long. One way or another the people in power will get back into power but it may get to the point where we have to give it a try. The police and military are being trained to turn on US, YOU AND ME. Case in point; the security guard that was spraying the pepper spray in the faces of some peaceful protesters. I believe it is going to get very ugly at some point in the future. I will probably not bee here but if I am I have the boots.
Ok, my rant is over, I hope everyone has a really nice day. Ya'll deserve it. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 11:51:48 GMT -5
Damn Billy, the big oil has been blowing smoke up our a$$ for a hundred years and I doubt that one is any different. You and they will slant it your way because that is where your money comes from. That area shown does not cover more than ten acres. Show us the rest of it and make a believer out of me. What is the total area that is a nasty mess. And when you stress .02% of the Canadian forest you are talking about a humongous area because the Canadian forest is one of the largest in the world. Just more of your smoke just like when you were talking about the pipelines being safe until the truth came out. Jim
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