WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on Feb 8, 2013 23:57:53 GMT -5
Well gas at the pump has now jumped up 40 cents a gallon in less than 2 weeks. I understand crude went up and that we have the now world famous oil speculators to thank for this, oil companies are clearly not to blame? ? SOOO why is it that in order to trade in oil futures shouldn't you HAVE TO BE DIRECTLY connected to the oil industry. For example in order to trade you need to own an oil well or a pipeline a ocean tanker tank farm or at the very least a gas station. Day traders will need to find something else to jack the price up on or find a different job. I also noticed that gas goes up right now and goes down lots slower. I am weary of all the excuses and nothing being done.
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marinedad
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since December 2010
Posts: 813
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Post by marinedad on Feb 9, 2013 0:11:08 GMT -5
the price of a barrell of oil has pretty much stayed around 95-97 dollars the last month, i don't get it either.
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Post by helens on Feb 9, 2013 0:23:53 GMT -5
Welcome to Deregulation.... where ANYONE can speculate in anything on the commodities market. Now that many food staples are also deregulated, we can expect that to do the same thing.
That's what people wanted right? What do you want done? Republicans worked hard to get that deregulation going.
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bhiatt
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2012
Posts: 1,532
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Post by bhiatt on Feb 9, 2013 0:29:54 GMT -5
Yeah here in Illinois it was around 2.99 for 3 months or so. Now its back up to around 3.50. I dont drive that much anymore because I work really close to home. Which is nice. I use to drive 60 miles each way for years. Most of my work now is in the next town over less than 10 miles. I try to make it where I get gas in St Louis. I live close to the Illinois Missouri borner close to St Louis. In St Louis its always cheaper. I usually go out to a blues concert downtown once a week or so and I fill up then. But yeah I am just waiting to see what it will be once it warmes up here in another month. Im shure it will be right back up to $4 a gallon like it was last year.
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Post by parfive on Feb 9, 2013 1:00:11 GMT -5
Ever heard of a broad named Brooksley Born? We had her squashed like a friggin’ bug. Ever heard of the CFTC? We played them like a Stradivarius. And that drill, baby, drill nonsense? That’s into your wallets, you dummies.
Have a nice day, Your pals @ Goldman Sachs
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Post by helens on Feb 9, 2013 1:21:25 GMT -5
parfive, I doubt the majority of people reading your post would have a clue what you are talking about when you write that cryptically. What he referenced is the CFTC's former chairman, Brooksley Born, fighting hard to let the CFTC regulate the derivatives market... and failing dismally. This lead to the 2000 Commodities Act which opened the door to the corporations PLAY with oil and food prices. One of the primary beneficiaries of this was the Koch Bros, whom have bought the Republican Candidates and spends billions on political blogs and 'articles' to persuade people to vote Republican to avoid regulation. Example: thinkprogress.org/report/koch-oil-speculation/?mobile=nc– December 12, 2000: Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX), after being lobbied by Koch and Enron, creates the infamous “Enron Loophole” vastly deregulating the oil speculation market. On the night of December 12, 2000, Gramm attaches a 262-page amendment to the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, which is then attached to an omnibus spending bill that is signed into law by President Clinton before leaving office.
The Gramm amendment, which received absolutely no public scrutiny or committee hearings, radically expands and codifies the energy deregulation agenda began by Gramm’s wife during the first Bush administration. The Gramm amendment allows so-called “over-the-counter” energy derivatives not only to be traded outside of regulated exchanges, but for private unregulated exchanges to deal in these sorts of financial products.
Thus, massive “dark” oil speculation markets are born, including Enron’s platform for trading energy futures, and the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) — an online speculation exchange founded by BP, Shell, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and other firms. Private e-mails reported by the New York Times reveal that members of The Energy Group, led by lobbyists at Enron but including at least two lobbyists from Koch and several more from Goldman Sachs and Sempra Trading, wrote Gramm’s amendment and pressured him to slip it into the bill.
– 2008: Rampant oil speculation spikes prices to unprecedented levels. As academics from the Peterson Institute, the James Baker Institute at Rice University, and others conclude, non-commercial speculators begin to dominate the market, forcing up prices. Although the evidence was abundant that speculators caused the massive price spikes during the summer of 2008, regulators were toothless to act. A bipartisan majority in the House overwhelmingly passed legislation to award powers to the CFTC to oversee rampant oil speculation, but Republican in the Senate — acting with help from Koch lobbyists — killed the bill, called the Energy Markets Emergency Act.
– 2009: Koch presentation to ICE boasts that Koch is on the level of transnational big banks and can now be considered one of the world’s top five oil speculators. The presentation, and our analysis, can be found here. Of course, Koch is not the only large corporation engaged in this practice. Large investors, like pension funds, hedge funds, investment banks, and others flocked to the commodities market after the financial crisis of 2008 and the collapse of mortgage-backed securities.
– 2010: Koch’s Tea Party front groups and lobbyists fight financial reforms designed to reign in the unregulated energy market. While Americans for Prosperity, as well as other Koch fronts, decry the Wall Street reform bill debated in Congress, Koch lobbied to water-down provisions of the bill related to derivatives. The sweeping Dodd-Frank reform bill contained broad new powers for the CFTC to crack down on excessive oil speculation, while also requiring that derivative are eventually traded on a regulated and open exchange.
– 2011: As oil speculation again hits record highs, leading to record high oil prices, Koch’s allies in Congress fight to undermine new reforms and allow unchecked speculation to spiral out of control. As ThinkProgress has reported, oil speculation is currently at a record level, which experts, and even many Republicans now agree, is causing pain at the pump. After a furious lobbying campaign, the CFTC postpones Dodd-Frank mandated regulations on excessive oil speculation, known as position limits. As the CFTC grapples with how to implement these new rules, newly elected Republicans, many with Koch-backing, propose steep cuts to the CFTC to undercut any rules on oil speculation.
Charles Koch, the CEO of Koch Industries who is worth a reported $22 billion, likes to call his business an example of something he describes as the “Science of Liberty.”
In reality, his company’s deregulation crusade has contributed to rolling blackouts, consolidation and monopolies in financial markets, and economy-wrecking oil price spikes. In comments to the CFTC, the reform-minded nonprofit Better Markets noted that, “the history of these markets is a history of anti-competitive, self-interested, predatory conduct that serves the interest of the exclusive few at the expense of the many and the system as a whole.”
After working furiously to unleash oil speculators like Koch and Enron, the Gramm family was rewarded with plum jobs, including spots on corporate boards and placements at speculator-funded think tanks. Wendy Gramm still holds a position at the Koch-funded Mercatus Center at George Mason University, although she hasn’t authored a paper in years.
While the Gramm family has faded somewhat from the public eye, their actions have radically changed the global economy. Since the Koch-Gramm-Enron deregulation bonanza, non-commercial oil speculators have flooded the market and increased the price volatility of oil in leaps and bounds, hurting consumers and businesses across the globe while making a small set of oil barons and financial giants very rich.
A McClatchy investigation found: “Prior to the 1990s, speculators made up about 30 percent of the futures market. In the latest reporting period, the ratio on May 3 stood at 68 percent speculators to 32 percent users of oil.”
The following chart illustrates the dramatic changes in the oil speculation market following the Koch-prescribed deregulation campaign, and how non-commercial speculators have pushed the price of oil higher and higher:
Michael Greenberger, a former top staffer the CFTC, explained to me that a common misperception is that oil companies are only bonafide hedgers, meaning they only participate in the futures market to lock-in prices for delivery of their product. With the exception of ExxonMobil, which has explicitly stated that it does not engage in speculation, all the major oil companies (Shell, BP, Occidental, etc) operate like Wall Street investment banks and use their privileged position in the oil market to make speculative bets on the price of oil. And as the unregulated oil market has grown, investment banks like JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley have become more like oil companies, buying tankers, pipelines, oil containers, and other physical assets to give them an edge while betting on oil. The Koch contango strategy detailed by ThinkProgress is not limited to Koch Industries either — Shell for instance is known for buying up cheap oil, storing it in tankers, and betting on future prices as they reserve the oil from the market.
Tyson Slocum, an expert on oil speculation at Public Citizen, has called Koch one of the worst actors when it comes to oil speculation. Koch, Slocum explained in an interview with ThinkProgress, is unique because of its status as a political powerhouse as well as a speculator with operations all over the world. Now you understand the entire mechanics of oil prices, and it's pretty simple. Food next.
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Post by helens on Feb 9, 2013 1:30:27 GMT -5
And I think it's pretty unfair to blame it all on Goldman Sachs considering that while they are players in that market, they are far from the biggest player, which is the Koch Bros.
The Koch Bros make billions... if not trillions... on playing with our oil prices. They have a LOT at stake to keep Republicans in Congress. THIS is the problem, and the only thing screwing them up is greed and contempt for American citizens. Because if Paul Ryan didn't screw the party up with his plan to end Medicare, added to the anti-women personal agendas of many Republicans, Romney and the Koch Bros, would have won the election.
The Dems are TRYING and TRYING to put regulatory control back in place for the CFTC, but it's not going to happen with the Republican House. Without regulations or punitive abilities, everything in the commodities market is open season for the biggest players. Oil has been a favorite... food is just starting to heat up. It will get worse before it gets better. No regulation is a good thing, keep telling yourself that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 9:08:07 GMT -5
WWOOWW That is the best long and short of it that I have ever seen. lol
GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED POWER POWER POWER POWER POWER. jIM
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WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on Feb 9, 2013 12:02:45 GMT -5
I wonder how long it is going to take for someone in Washington to figure out that when working people have to spend so much on fuel that they don't have money to spend on "things". Until fuel comes down the economy isn't going to come back.
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Post by helens on Feb 9, 2013 12:50:42 GMT -5
Warren... what do you mean 'Washington'?
Republicans wanted deregulation, and GOT it, check the timeline above. Washington can do absolutely not one thing about prices right now. Obama and the Dem Senate have tried multiple times to get funding and regulatory powers to the organization that controls playing with oil and food prices, the CFTC, and it's continuously blocked by the Republicans in the name of 'deregulation'.
Deregulation MEANS that they can play with costs. And if you think the millionaires playing monopoly with oil prices take into account what YOU'd like to pay for oil and gas, you need to wake up quick.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 22:19:22 GMT -5
Our gas is still way cheaper than it was a while back. Jim
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Post by bobby1 on Feb 9, 2013 23:35:56 GMT -5
Not really. Its back up to $4 today here where I live. Bob
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jockstrap
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2011
Posts: 56
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Post by jockstrap on Feb 10, 2013 7:08:27 GMT -5
Here, In Scotland, I paid $8.40 a gallon on Friday. That's why I drive a modern efficient diesel engined compact (By American standards) vehicle. That is per Imperial gallon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 11:12:39 GMT -5
It has been a couple of weeks since I filled up but it was $2.97 and five cents off if I pay cash. Jim
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 11, 2013 0:25:18 GMT -5
Here, In Scotland, I paid $8.40 a gallon on Friday. That's why I drive a modern efficient diesel engined compact (By American standards) vehicle. That is per Imperial gallon. Still on the imperial gallon and not the Litre? Still miles in UK and not KM too? $8.40 imp = $6.72 US gallon, still a lot. Does diesel cost more there than petrol? Lee
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Post by parfive on Feb 11, 2013 1:20:51 GMT -5
$6.72, eh?
Parfive arbitrage that deal till cows come home. ;D
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cherdarock
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2012
Posts: 140
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Post by cherdarock on Feb 11, 2013 5:37:31 GMT -5
California and Hawaii are on average, 50 cents to a dollar more than the rest of the nation. But then our politicians are better at talking us into higher taxes, while we as cityzens LOVE TO DRIVE! (Rocks are still not coming to US either!)
When you mention gas prices, well, it is simply wrong the trick they use to quiet folks grumbling while forcing them to pay more.
Gas JUMPS to $4.50 a gallon, then PEAKS at say $4.82 and it hurts all of our wallets, while stockholders are rolling around in in silk underwear wondering why Rolex doesn't make a watch that congratulates them for making greed a form of competiton with bendable rules, and no shame. That $4.82 seems to be the NEW $3.82 so folks start hollering! Slowly, like a stripper teases, the price comes down, might waver a bit and then settle at $4.45 a gallon. (Still 35 cents higher than when it all began with the jump to $4.50 from $4.10) But most folks see it as WAYYYYY better than $4.82 so sure we pay, while the same thing happens again.
The problem is an unfortunate result of capitalism. Capitalism allows people to "play" with the very thing people use to survive. MONEY! I am not saying we need to revive commie or socialist ideals, but people who use the free market for bloated wealth naturally have the advantage. They also have greed and power. Intoxicating stuff. Remember too, when you have billions of dollars in your pocket, YOU have the ability to manipulate the market. Diversify enough and you don't get wiped out when the machine crashes. Bill Gates and Buffet lost billions when the market crashed. They are still billionaires. The common folk are at thier limits. The rich don't care unless it affects their bottom line.
OIL COMPANIES also make it a practice to purchase any type of patent that relates to energy production. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. The oil companies own most of the patents for extraction because hydrogen can replace fossil fuels for energy. Same old story, control that which is in demand, and you then dictate the price, and you utilize it to manuever the free market's supply and demand. Purchase the related manufacturing from rubber seals to precious metal catalytic conversion. Get ahold of everything, and you wind up with a cut of every dime that every person spends.
Capitalism is fine, but it does need rules that make the super rich have to put out more. If the wealthy paid taxes to the degree they pay accountants and lawyers to provide ways of avoiding their taxes, we would all be better off.
in any case, gasoline will NEVER go down in price, other than what they allow....
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Feb 11, 2013 11:00:35 GMT -5
Most of what I have read here is a pile of bullcrap!!!!!!! Lets take Nat. gas as an example. Price in 2006 was $13.75 Mcf. Today its $4.75 Mcf. What happened? It when down. Why? ?? The answer is new technology or FRACKING!!!!!! If your poor excuse of a president would stop worrying about the greens and Warren Buffet types and open up the drilling, fracking and the keystone. Prices will come down. The price of nat gas came down because fracking flooded the market!!!!And Helen don't give us the dem. propaganda bullcrap that it would go up if the keystone is built. The election is over. 51% foolish americans bought into the crap already. Its time wake up.
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Post by helens on Feb 11, 2013 12:09:30 GMT -5
The election has nothing to do with why I don't like the idea of the Keystone. Top of the list being that it doesn't benefit the US, it benefits Canada and China. Now why would the US want that?
Your silly reasoning of 'it would create more jobs' would hold better water if there were more people in the oil business looking for work... but that field is already short qualified employees, and they aren't going to hire disabled people to work on the pipeline anyway.
So what jobs? Unless out of desperation for skilled workers, they start putting ads in Saudi Arabia for muslim oil workers, who's going to get jobs in a field that are already short skilled workers? For that, we should let Canada pollute its way across the US?
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Post by parfive on Feb 11, 2013 12:30:43 GMT -5
Bushman funny. Also lying sack of [not puppies]. Today: “And Helen don't give us the dem. propaganda bullcrap that it would go up if the keystone is built.” Yesterday: “It's economic survival in Canada, where between bottlenecks and gluts, the gap between what Alberta crude fetches compared to the world market has sent Alberta and the federal government scrambling for spending cuts.” And why blame Helen or "dem. propaganda" for something that was all spelled out in TransCanada’s pipeline application. Remember? Last I checked, that "dem. propaganda" was costin’ *you* what? Eighteen billion a year? ;D
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