copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Mar 16, 2015 21:39:10 GMT -5
Ok so I started a course tumble yesterday in my Loto. Two table spoons is 120/220 and two table spoons of borax. Started with just wet rocks, no excess water. It got really dry really quickly so I started added some water via spray bottle, checking frequently and thinking I needed to keep adding water because it kept looking so dry and the action was so slow. Seemed like I was adding too much at the time but it was SO dry looking. Needless to say when I checked it this morning, it wasn't hardly rolling at all. Pulled the tub, turned it over and a good bit of liquid poured out in my hand. I had in fact added too much water and it was standing in the bottom. Looking back I see where a few were using only 1 tablespoon of borax instead of two. Figuring out the correct amount of water appears to be tricky for me right now. But I'll get it. Trail and error!!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Mar 21, 2015 13:29:48 GMT -5
Ok so I started a course tumble yesterday in my Loto. Two table spoons is 120/220 and two table spoons of borax. Started with just wet rocks, no excess water. It got really dry really quickly so I started added some water via spray bottle, checking frequently and thinking I needed to keep adding water because it kept looking so dry and the action was so slow. Seemed like I was adding too much at the time but it was SO dry looking. Needless to say when I checked it this morning, it wasn't hardly rolling at all. Pulled the tub, turned it over and a good bit of liquid poured out in my hand. I had in fact added too much water and it was standing in the bottom. Looking back I see where a few were using only 1 tablespoon of borax instead of two. Figuring out the correct amount of water appears to be tricky for me right now. But I'll get it. Trail and error!! Hi copiahdad - I'm sure most of us Loto lovers have done this. I remember it well. It's one of the reasons I started adding my psyllium - I found that a little thickener gives the slurry a little body when it needs it, and that helps get it rolling. Looking forward to hearing more about your adventures in tumbling! |
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Post by TheRock on Sept 22, 2017 12:47:02 GMT -5
What an O U T S T A N D I N G Post! Jugglerguy  Thanks Very Concise and well written! Garage Rocker thanks for bringing this post to my attention on the LOT O. I have two in the mail that will be here tomorrow. Lots of good info on what works in them! Cheers  ~Duke |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 22, 2017 12:54:22 GMT -5
Thank you, Rob Jugglerguy for all the time and effort you took on this experiment, the photos, etc. Of course, ingawh upstaged you, with her "beginner's luck" on those amazing obsidians.
I didn't pay much attention to the thread at the time, because I wasn't tumbling then, nor did I have a Vibe!
Thanks everyone that contributed to the thread. I have bookmarked it for future reference.
ETA - My Gy-Roc vibe is finishing up polish on my last batch as I type. Pulling the plug and stopping it this afternoon. |
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dianewms
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2017
Posts: 1 
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Post by dianewms on Nov 8, 2017 8:42:23 GMT -5
I decided to try something new. I'm trying to tumble a batch of rocks from start to finish using just a Lot-O. Every batch I've ever done before this has been started in a rotary and finished in a vibe. I'm sure that will remain my favorite method, but I just had to try something different. I've read lots on the subject, so I know that it won't round my rocks like a rotary. I'm not sure how to know when the rocks are ready to move on though. In my rotaries, I'm a perfectionist and leave rocks there for months in order to get every last flaw out. I'm not sure that it's possible to remove every last flaw in a vibe though, so I don't know when to stop. I'm tumbling Montana agates, which I think are pretty hard. I have never tumbled a complete batch of them before. Some of these agates had some pretty bad flaws and others were pretty nice. They were almost all very rough. I imagine they would take quite a few months in the first stage in a rotary tumbler. I tend to think that a vibe does as much in a day or two as a rotary does in a week, at least that's the way it works in the last stages. When roughing though, there are at least a couple variables. In a rotary, I'd be going a week at a time with 80 grit. In my Lot-O, I've been going 24 hours with 120/220 grit. So I'm going for less time using finer grit in a machine that works faster. I think I've already gone way beyond what a normal person would do. I'm going to empty it in a few minutes for the 21st time. I've changed grit every day for three weeks. I'm using 2 tablespoons of grit per day, so that's a lot of grit. Most days I've added 1 tablespoon of borax. I've also done some days without borax and some days with 1 teaspoon. I've found that when using borax, I have to add water more often, so it seems to grind faster with borax than without. It doesn't seem to matter much if I use a teaspoon or a tablespoon. For the first week or so I used small beach gravel with the larger Montanas. Then I switched to a mix of small and large ceramics. I didn't notice a difference. Did I mention that I've taken pictures of every rock every day? Day 0  Day 0 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 1  Day 1 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 7  Day 7 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 20  Day 20 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Polished (Day 38)  Untitled by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 0  Day 0 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 1  Day 1 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 7  Day 7 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 20  Day 20 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Polished:  Untitled by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 0  Day 0 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 1  Day 1 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 7  Day 7 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Day 20  Day 20 by jugglerguy, on Flickr Polished:  Untitled by jugglerguy, on Flickr I'm a big believer of not moving rocks on until they're ready. I don't know if these rocks will ever be ready, though. Small pits and spalls that would be removed by a rotary tumbler never seem to go away. Are Montana agates super hard, and this is to be expected? Are vibratory tumblers really bad at removing this stuff? If tumbling rocks in this way, do I just have to be ok with a bunch of imperfections? Is there anything I can do to improve my technique? I'd really love to hear from those of you who tumble with just a vibratory tumbler. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,618
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Post by jamesp on Nov 16, 2017 11:11:12 GMT -5
This may have been mentioned along the way in this thread. If you have an industrial grade hopper (like the Vibrasonic) that is rated for coarse silicon carbide you may do a quicker job. The polyurethane hopper in the Vibrasonic is rated for a coarse silicon carbide 80. It is easily broken down totally in 24 hours. But you would have to do a clean out every 24 hours and add 2 tablespoons of SiC 80 every day. Lots of work.... If your hopper is not made for silicon carbide 60/80 it will ruin it and you will be forced to use slower cutting abrasive like 120/220 or 220 or whatever your hopper is designed for. Best way is to shape rocks in a rotary. If my vibe had a drain for easy clean outs like this one I would consider daily clean outs/fresh SiC 80:  |
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Post by TheRock on Nov 18, 2017 22:04:38 GMT -5
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 18, 2017 22:30:10 GMT -5
Nothing like that avalanche action for removing material. Don't know that a vibe will ever replace the violence of a rotary tumbler. Just too gentle. A time and place for everything.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,618
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Post by jamesp on Nov 19, 2017 6:28:07 GMT -5
Great info @jamessp  Looking at the vibe, I would use 2 tablespoons of coarse SiC every 24 hours for 14 pounds rock. Looking at rotary, I would use 1 cup(actually 1.5 cups) of coarse every 7 days for 14 pounds of rock. The rate of abrasive usage would be similar. The vibe probably breaks down brittle SiC to a useless shaping size in as fast as 8 hours. My vibe will on about the lowest setting. So the vibe may be able to process 3 times more abrasive to the rock. Meaning 3 clean outs per day !! Would not surprise me if a vibe could shape rocks quickly using coarse SiC and many clean outs I am not sure if anyone has tried to coarse shape in a vibe using SiC 30-46-60. To compare to a rotary I believe coarse SiC should be used. A vibe with a drain would sure make the clean outs easy. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,618
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Post by jamesp on Nov 19, 2017 6:35:19 GMT -5
Nothing like that avalanche action for removing material. Don't know that a vibe will ever replace the violence of a rotary tumbler. Just too gentle. A time and place for everything. Not so fast Randy. Vibes generate tremendous forces. They are high speed hammer monsters. Pretty sure if you stuck a force sensor down in the bottom of a vibe you would see some serious peak forces. Under 6 inches of rocks vibrating 3600/min/60 sec = 60 vibes/second. It used to take 7 to 10 days each to run the AO 500 and the AO 14,000 polish in a rotary instead of 2 days each in a vibe. Please don't challenge me to do this experiment too. |
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Thanks Very Concise and well written! Garage Rocker thanks for bringing this post to my attention on the LOT O. I have two in the mail that will be here tomorrow. Lots of good info on what works in them! Cheers 
~Duke
... to the New Guys from The ChatBox V.2 Crew