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Post by cpdad on May 21, 2007 17:55:40 GMT -5
chris first let me make a little apology here...i should have never said an act of congress in my original post about your feed back...its still pretty bad ;D<<< see the little smiley ;D
im not going back to look at what i said so if i get something wrong excuse me...i think it was goldfinger that put up a link to your site originally...i spent a while on it...and thought to myself cool informative site...then i jumped over to your auctions...and seen the tourmaline and tanzinite i think... for 9.99.
i thought that looks cool....i read the auction and it said appr. 40 grams...i didnt know what 40 grams was...i thought 30 was close to an ounce...i was to lazy to go convert it at the time...so i actually posted a question on the board...what size is a 30 gram rock...they told me of course...i then could visualize how much 40 grams might be in peices.
then i actually noticed you made a post...i thought cool...hes a new member and gonna get a sale and didnt even make a sales pitch...cause i was looking already ;D
so i went back to the auction...thats when i noticed the feedback...yes it did make me hit the back button...i should have just sent you a pm asking if past problems would be an issue if i placed an order....but i didnt...oh kev here just starts typing ;D.
but i must say this....what i typed was meant just as i was sitting across the table from you talking normal... it wasnt meant as harsh by no means...yes i know it came across that way...but it wsnt meant to be...i have a bad habit of that kinda junk ;D
yes someone would have asked about it eventually...i think the way i asked about it...read diff as to what i really meant.
i do hope you hang around...as i said before your website is cool...having a mining degree is cool...seems like you have a lot of experience all around...which is something most everyone here will appreciate...and i really mean that...i know i would like having you around...plus your mugshot looks similiar to someone here...i aint figured out who yet...but it does ;D
i still want to buy some tourmaline for my son...hes a part time member here...but i might have to watch that feedback ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D<<<<<<see the smileys...kev.
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turnedstone
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2006
Posts: 766
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Post by turnedstone on May 21, 2007 18:28:30 GMT -5
You all that made neg. comments should be ashamed the man came here as a new member and never tried to sell anything at all. He was ripped up and spit out like a bad piece of meat this is so sad the way you all rip people up and most of it has to do with the so called protecting of the flock well it is bull and I for one wish it would stop. George
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stoneman92
starting to shine!
Member since February 2007
Posts: 30
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Post by stoneman92 on May 21, 2007 20:45:19 GMT -5
What is that old saying...... If you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut?? Generally this is a very nice board to read but, it sure can get down right mean from time to time!
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Post by cpdad on May 21, 2007 21:12:51 GMT -5
stone was your response meant to be directed to me?..or just in general....kev.
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stoneman92
starting to shine!
Member since February 2007
Posts: 30
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Post by stoneman92 on May 21, 2007 21:36:39 GMT -5
Just in general, Kev. I was commenting on Georges post that the negative comments get old. I just don't see where Chris's original post warranted all the comments made. It sure didn't look like what he posted deserved all bs he got. Is that what you mean?
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Post by deb193 on May 22, 2007 0:10:50 GMT -5
Well I will stand by what I wrote. Sorry George if you disagree, and I don't even know you stoneman92. I had an open mind verging on the side of caution. After a while I did agree with others that there did seem to be a pattern. What the heck is so mean about that??
If you come in the the vendors section of all places and start lecturing on ebay scams and are not prepared to answer a civil question about having more than the average negative feedback, than you are not thinking right.
It is too bad a few folks chimed in on cpdad's comment/question and perhaps Chris felt ganged up on. But I can't cut Chris any slack for how he behaved afterward. Instead of answering the question, or expressing some concern that people seemed quick to judge, he started throwing a lot of hyperbole, sarcasm, and personal attack. He behaved badly. Even after cpdad extended several olive branches, Chris continued with a nasty tone. Far as I am concerned stoneman is not behaving a lot better either what with using sarcasm and putting words into others' mouths.
This is the vendor's section where we talk about vendors. Don't like that kind of discussion, then don't read this section. Think something got expressed poorly, then offer constructive criticism - not insults, or calling us sad, or calling us mean.
I am sick and tired of expressing a reasonable opinion, or raising a legitimate point, and having the "harmony police" try to suppress legitimate discussion.
Many times on this board I have seen advice given to avoid ebay sellers with feedback below 98. I even recall someone posting about body temperature, 98.6, as the cutoff. That is the prevailing wisdom of this board as I have read in posts for the last two years. Are we just supposed to forget that? Are we just supposed to ignore a new person, posting in the vendor's section of all places, talking about ebay of all things, who has feedback below 96% ?? And cpdad didn't call him a crook, he rather civilly asked for some comment on the issue.
It was unfortunate that before Chris could respond and address the concern/issue, that enough others had time to chime in that he felt a little ganged up on. I can see feeling a little defensive. But I assume he is an adult and could say "hey guys not so fast. Consider this ..." Instead he chose to reply with a nasty tone. His choice, and perhaps his true colors.
Now stoneman, another seller with thousands of feedbacks, who is for some reason hanging out with mostly buyers and hobbyists, wants to tell us how to think, wants to tell us what we can and cannot say about an ebay seller's feedback. I don't like it, but I guess this free-speech thing cuts both ways.
I know George, and figure he just likes more harmony or something. But, even his post surprised me a bit. I don't agree that the issue raised or the statement by a few that they had concerns about the feedback is tantamount to ripping someone up and spitting them out like bad meat - lets get real, that is some serious overstatement. And to boot, not one ounce of acknowledgment that Chris's response was nasty. That's a bit one sided. Sorry George, but that is my opinion. I say it here. I don't talk behind people's back.
Yall can twist things however you want. But I read what I read, and I know what I know.
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stoneman92
starting to shine!
Member since February 2007
Posts: 30
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Post by stoneman92 on May 22, 2007 13:38:36 GMT -5
I don't believe that I said what I buy/sell on Ebay, Daniel. But, as per most of your posts, you seem to always have the answer to all things and can add your own sarcasm as to my Ebay activities. All I did was to agree with George that a new member offered some advise and then was treated like crap. A comments/questions that could have been handled via pm's. I don't need a half page with my every post to inform the world of what is right or wrong. Sorry for welcome you received, Chris. Most here are a friendly bunch of rock hounds!
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 22, 2007 18:06:31 GMT -5
We've always looked out for each other here. It's like a flock of birds... when one sees a cat he starts squawkin' and pretty soon the whole flock is squawkin'.
Chris is still welcome here. He chose to react to the questions about his ratings as a personal attack. If he had reacted differently....
I appreciate other members raising the red flag.
Dan
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turnedstone
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2006
Posts: 766
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Post by turnedstone on May 22, 2007 19:50:22 GMT -5
Why would you raise a red flag over someone that just wanted to enjoy talking to other rock people. He never once said he wanted to sell anything and he was hung out and lynched before he had a chance to reply.He had 9 posts and not on any of them did he want to sell anything so tell me why you all thought he should be treated like he was. I too would have reacted with disdain over the way some on here vilified him before he had a chance to even say anything it is a shame because he did seem like he had allot of knowledge in many diffrent fields. Now I guess you can start on me.George
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Post by akansan on May 22, 2007 20:07:00 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel we are less like a flock of birds and more like a pack of wolves.  |
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stoneman92
starting to shine!
Member since February 2007
Posts: 30
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Post by stoneman92 on May 22, 2007 20:09:13 GMT -5
Be careful, George. I now have to proof read and give sources for my posts. Either they are incorrect or I am not telling the truth. The Rock Tumbling Deputies on on the job! They must think that the board is made up of children that must be protected, not adults. Oh well, be careful!
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 22, 2007 22:01:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry Stoneman... your sarcasm is lost on me.
Not children... novices ...and there are plenty of folks out there looking to rip off someone who doesn't know any better. Believe it or not we want new hobbyists to enjoy this hobby as much as we do and getting ripped off is the quickest way I can think of to spoil the fun.
I agree it's a shame that he felt attacked... maybe some were to... voracious.
I don't know Chris was here to rip people off or not but... I'm glad I didn't have to find out the hard way...
my 2 cents...
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Post by cina on May 22, 2007 23:16:51 GMT -5
I wan't to say sorry to everyone maybe I was a little upset and let my fingers go a bit away from my mind  I think from now on I better stick with the *nice shine good job * kind of posts that way I don't have to worrie about whos back yard I am pi$$ing in. Steph |
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adrian65
Cave Dweller 
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on May 23, 2007 3:13:16 GMT -5
Wow, it seems to be a harsh battlefield here! I better go out quick!
Adrian
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desertdweller
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2006
Posts: 1,803
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Post by desertdweller on May 23, 2007 7:46:35 GMT -5
SO far, Chris is the one that has said anything about being a crook.
"I really dont care if any of you buy from me on ebay, I never suggested that any of you would or should. You were the one who brought me up and painted me as a crook, criminal and bad guy all on your own."
That was a little dramatic, all we talked about was his feedback rating. Things like that get discussed in this section, Chris is welcome to discuss openly also, nobody stabbed him in the back, we were all hoping he would give us a little insight. I asked some questions and I wish he would answer them. Something else he said,
I take it from your comments that none of you have any experience selling on ebay, beyond maybe one or two items here and there. If you have please post your ebay name and we will all start attacking you!
Not real sure what you meant by that but you can bet your ass that if someone else's feedback rating was looked at by another member and they thought it was questionable, their opinion or remarks would get posted in this section, in hopes of finding out more about them.
SO I still have some questions for Chris,
Just wondering if the pictures in your auctions are of the actual items you are selling or if you use the same photo for all sapphire auctions or the same photo for all emerald auctions? (just examples).
You did a lot of typing in your response but a lot of it was way off of the subject.
1) It is easy to game the feedback system and if I were dishonest, I’d have a better feedback score. It is super easy to create phony ebay IDs – there are actually computer programs written by thieves that create them by the hundreds. If I was dishonest, I’d just make a few hundred phony IDs, sell myself some inexpensive items, and then give myself a whole bunch of positive feedback saying what a great guy I am. Thieves do it all the time. The easier thing, and not dishonest would be for me to just create another ID and just use that one instead of my old one. I’d have fewer total feedbacks, but a higher positive percentage.
2) Return customers are not counted in the feedback system. I have folks who buy goods from me every year. They have left 30 or more positive feedbacks, but the system counts only one – the rest are considered as duplicates.
Yes they are counted, just below your feedback score will be total positive feedbacks received.
3) Most buyers never leave feedback at all.
This statement is not even close to being true.
Same thing with color – the colors you see on your screen depend on the type of screen you have, the settings it is set to and its age. But if my stones don’t match what they saw on their screen, a certain small percentage are unhappy and think I am a crook.
You are right, the unhappy are a small percentage in the big picture but from what I have read.....It was the same complaint over and over and over again. I know that many people don't browse ebay with a screwed up monitor.
The question I wish you would talk about is that in 99% of your negatives, people were complaining because they had tried to contact you, so you could address their concern with their purchase, but you never answered their emails, I am wondering why? All of those negatives could of been avoided, why did you ignore their emails?
8) ALL OF MY BUYERS – 100% of my customers - get either the goods they ordered or a full 100% refund. Yah, it may take a while to get a refund processed, and because I know the post office sometimes badly delay stuff I like to wait and see if the goods will show up.
If this is true then maybe you should ask them to post a follow up remark, letting any other potential buyers know that the problem was rectified, I only saw 1 negative that had a followup reply but I didn't look at all of your pages, just the first 25 or so.
I would think you would want to know what people are thinking when they view your feedback, we are just like any other potential buyers and I can pretty much guarantee that a large percentage of people browsing your auctions are also checking your feedback profile. That is the only thing a seller has to back his or her business with.
So if you have the time or the interest, please respond. Thanks.
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on May 23, 2007 12:38:51 GMT -5
Ebay is a tough place to make a living and feedback is part of the Ebay system. If you have not done business with a vendor and do not know someone who had dealt with that vendor, the feedback score and your intuition are your only guides. It is reasonable to look at someones feedabck score and draw inferences. You'd be an idiot if you didn't.
Chris took comments about his feedback score in a negative way and took it as an attack on hid integrity. Instead of explaining, he went into attack mode.
All of us who experience as a buyer or seller know that there are ripoff artists who steal from good vendors and post negative feedback along the way. Everything gets weighted. There are people who will only buy if your feedback is 100%. I myself live a bit more on the edge . In the end it's all a judgement, whether to deal with a vendor or not.
My two worst experiences on Ebay were very different. In the first, a seller went on an extended vacation, their identity was stolen by an aquaintance, and many people were ripped off by a vendor with 100% positive feedback. Shit Happens! I left negative feedback and the seller who was a victim after returning from vacation was the unfortunate recipient of my anger.
In the other, I bought some inexpensive rough and felt I was taken advantage of(bait and switch?). I didn't leave negative feedback, discussed with the vendor, didn't recieve any satisfaction, but they convinced me they felt they were right and that I could (no, I don't really think I was wrong, but there was room for reasonable doubt) be wrong. I didn't like the tone of how we conversed. I sensed hostility from the vendor, I was disappointed with the merchandise I received, butI don't think it warranted any more time on my part.
You sort of sense that Chris has a chip on his shoulderand perhaps he has a good reason for it, but in the end, this board is a community, he is welcome to join us and be one of us, but when your are the newbee like he is, you should play by our rules for awhile. We will make anyone a full member but that does not mean that we will instantly change our beliefs or our way or dealing with vedors or negative feedback. Work with us. Convince us, Enlighten us, but don't attack us when you hardly know us.
csroc
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Post by NM Stone Supply on May 24, 2007 7:46:37 GMT -5
Chris I am a E Bay seller that found this Board from a deal that did not go so well. When I came here I was chewed up a little and also spit back out. I did not let it get to me. I sent the buyer some new stone, he was happy and I did a good thing in the eyes of other members. I have learned on E Bay, there will allways be people that complain and are not happy. Sometimes you have to go out of your way and make them happy. I have stayed a member for well over a year and made many great friends. I have learned to not solicit my E bay sales here that often. I am not a member of this board to sell stuff here. I am here to learn and make friends and that I have. My advise: Lower the tone, stick around and everyone may get over this so you can have fun, meet friends and learn new things here on this board.  Jason |
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Post by deb193 on May 24, 2007 14:29:53 GMT -5
Why would you raise a red flag over someone that just wanted to enjoy talking to other rock people. He never once said he wanted to sell anything and he was hung out and lynched before he had a chance to reply. He had 9 posts and not on any of them did he want to sell anything so tell me why you all thought he should be treated like he was. I too would have reacted with disdain over the way some on here vilified him before he had a chance to even say anything it is a shame because he did seem like he had allot of knowledge in many different fields. Now I guess you can start on me. George No George. I have nothing to "start on you". I was just surprised by your post given the pleasant and rational tone of our past interactions. I thought the, at worst, raking or close examination Chris got, was not tantamount to being chewed up, spit out, rotten meat, or now lynched. (We need to seperate original opinions abotu Chris the ebay seller form subsequent opinions about Chris the inappropriate and nasty responder. At this point I would vote for a cyber lynching.) I can see/understand the disdain you felt, even if I do not fully agree. For me it is more mild regret that things were not smoother. But, if you rise to disdain, I say hey, we are not so far apart, we agree that the context for a new member was less than ideal. But, your original post sounded like much more than disdain, and your original characterization did strike me as very overstated. I said so, end of story. For what it is worth, forget for a moment that Chris was a member. CPDAD was looking at an item on an ebay seller's listings. He had already made inquiries here about grams vs ounces, and was seriously considering a purchase. If Chris had not just at that time joined, I bet CPDAD would have made one of those "anybody know this seller" or "what do yall think about this feedback" kind of posts that are from time to time put in this section. Usually at least one or two every month or so. And the 3 or 4 people (myself included) that briefly discussed the feedback and our thoughts about it, and our thoughts about doing business with this guy ... well we would still have said all that stuff. So is all this not supposed to happen just because Chris recently (very recently) joined? Did everyone who responded about the feedback even factor in whether he was a member or not? I will admit that it would have been better if there had been less discussion, or more of the idea that folks were waiting for Chris to respond before finalizing their opinion - but the responses were still mild, honest, and typical. Since Chris was here, cpdad asked him if he wanted to comment. That is the only thing that was done different because he was a member, and I think it was a civil and courteous thing to do. The other postings were done the same as for any seller, and were consistent with frequently offered opinions about feedback scores. I was upset because all we did was discuss feedback like we would have done for any query in this section. Yet some people faulted us, or expected us to not post the opinions we would have normally posted, all in the interest of harmony, and it struck me as wanting too much harmony and not enough honesty. I agree we need to balance truth and harmony, because too much of either and not enough of the other is bad. But we just did business as usual, and offered a pretty standard opinion about feedback complaints we saw. Chris is the one that went all ape shit. Yet the people being good board citizens and using this section as it was intended, get denounced, and those doing the denouncing do not condemn the totally out of line and unacceptable and (as Jamie points mostly irreverent and untrue) response of Chris. How upside down and backwards is that? |
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Post by goldfinger on May 29, 2007 7:35:54 GMT -5
WOW!!!!  Been gone a week and a few of you managed to run renochris off the board for absolutely no reason at all.  >:(I've been following Chris's posts on other forums for over four years and have learned a great deal as he has a degree in geology and is an avid rockhound with lots of knowledge on Nevada. When he upgraded his website with the addition of a few more pages on some rockhounding areas in Nevada- I thought everyone here would be interested on seeing them - so I posted the link on this forum. Instead of focusing on the content of his website- some of you started attacking his feedback rating on Ebay of all things  I don't know what he did to deserve that but I've never seen such impetuous and immature behavior on this forum or even on any other forum before and I certainly can't blame him for leaving. There is absolutely no reason why he should have to defend himself against a bunch of idiots who think they know everything. Adios Steve |
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Post by cpdad on May 29, 2007 16:48:21 GMT -5
i havent looked at this thread since i made my last post...and im not going back to read what came after it....i seen where nmrocks posted to it and figured id better come look at my ass chewing from her also but i see shes keeping quite.
goldfinger i apologized to chris in my last post for bringing it up the way i did...if thats not good enough for some people or chris...well...not much else i can do...i may be impetuous and immature...hell i cant see how i come across to others....but i can promise you 1 thing.... i am no idiot...kev.
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I think from now on I better stick with the *nice shine good job * kind of posts that way I don't have to worrie about whos back yard I am pi$$ing in. 
>:(I've been following Chris's posts on other forums for over four years and have learned a great deal as he has a degree in geology and is an avid rockhound with lots of knowledge on Nevada. 
