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Post by MrP on Apr 13, 2018 14:10:31 GMT -5
No reason to not leave it in the saw, water soluble is a misnomer it is actually an emulsion I have had it sitting for months and there is no separation just mix well before adding. Most all lapidary suppliers market some type but they tack 30-40-50% to the cost just to say for lapidary use, check the MSDS's they are all pretty much the same. I get the feeling that a lot of these suppliers etc. think we are all dummies (I guess I am) but I know you guy's aren't. What brand are you using and where do you get it?.......................MrP |
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Post by Rockoonz on Apr 13, 2018 19:39:15 GMT -5
If the saw is 8" or less by all means don't use mineral oil, it has little effect on blade life. I use the Lube Cool as well. Above 8", where blades start getting expensive I'll stick with what the saw blade manufacturers recommend. barrancadiamond.com/pdf/tec/bd_slab_saw_coolants.pdf"Water Water is not recommended as a cutting fluid as it is a coolant only and does not promote good cutting performance. Water can shorten blade life and often frequent blade sharpening may be required. However, it can be used if a water soluble synthetic agent/additive such as Smokey’s EZ Cut or Diamond Pacific Roc Cut is used to extend blade life and promote improved sawing. Even with additives, frequent blade sharpening may be required. These additives have rust inhibiting properties but oxidation can still result over time as mist and heat can cover the blade arbor threaded shaft and jam nut with water during and after sawing. For this reason, if water with or without an additive is used as a cutting fluid, the user is advised to use water displac - ing WD-40 sprayed on the blade core and shaft/nut after every cutting session to inhibit rust formation." Also they mention the additives being synthetic, not emulsions, and in the list of things NOT to use list other types of additives used for machining and whatnot as having hazardous ingredients. Lastly, mineral oil IS petroleum. the word mineral doesn't mean it comes from somewhere other than the same oil wells our other petroleum products come from. |
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Mark K
Cave Dweller 
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,818 
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Post by Mark K on Apr 13, 2018 20:15:40 GMT -5
I have found that using that water crap F's up my blade really fast. 303, gone in no time.
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minerken
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Apr 14, 2018 0:18:11 GMT -5
MrP I just buy the Napa brand found at my Napa Auto store
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Post by TheRock on Apr 14, 2018 0:50:24 GMT -5
I hate  but why in the world don't you guys use water soluble oils think about it what are you trying to protect a metal blade. These oils are designed to cool ,lubricate prevent rust,eliminate misting in metal grinding and cutting at extremely high speeds. Most are a mineral oil base and now days biodegradable, costs vary but more than adequate versions are in the $30 per gal range with a mix ratio of 10:1 makes 10 gal @$3/ gal. I've been using this stuff for years and find it superior to all other oils I have used . The Hell if I know? I'm a Newbie I asked what to use when I got the saw and pretty much got the consensus that Mineral Oil was the way to go. So how long do blades last with the Lube Cool 4800? Thanks ~Duke |
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minerken
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Apr 14, 2018 1:55:32 GMT -5
TheRock actually I can't say how long my blades last I've never counted slabs etc that I gotten from them, all I know is if I don't tweak a blade from some stupid mistake they just seem to go and go. I don't necessarily do production type cutting I've had my current blade on about 2yrs of cutting maybe 200-250 slabs just a guess and it is still going but have had to dress if more often lately. I normally cut more agate than other rocks about fist size on the average. I wasn't trying to point you out it was the idea that every one responding for the most part where talking about where to get the cheapest mineral oil when there is another alternative which IMHO is better sorry if you took it personally that wasn't my intention. BTW this is my opinion and you know what they say about people and opinions.
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Post by MrP on Apr 14, 2018 4:52:59 GMT -5
MrP I just buy the Napa brand found at my Napa Auto store Thank You. Can you tell me what ratio you are mixing it at?.....................................MrP |
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Apr 14, 2018 23:24:29 GMT -5
If you make a sump, make it three chambered. The first chamber for the direct flow from the saw, then the second is overflow from the first and third is overflow from #2. Put the return pump in the last, muck out the first on a schedule depending on usage.
Congratulations on lots of cutting.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Apr 14, 2018 23:35:54 GMT -5
Thanks to all for the feedback, this centrifuge thing has peaked my interest. Rockoonz what product have your purchased from highland park or can you direct me to the post where someone has had bad dealings with John and crew? Thanks ~Duke I had a horrible experience with them. Placed order, card charged. No contact. I called a couple weeks later. Sorry we out of stock. Asked for a refund. Never got it. Was nearly at the end of the 90 day chargeback period. Called again, it shipped that day. Zero communication after the sale. It's all mass produced chinesium and they don't carry inventory. They instead stack orders and import quarterly on our money. ETA We had a nice older gentlemen member from Texas that has now passed from cancer. He purchased a saw and it took them three visits to his house over a 3 months period to get it operating for him. rockpickerforever was this member @shelty? Can you help find his HP saw experience thread? |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 15, 2018 2:51:08 GMT -5
I had a horrible experience with them. Placed order, card charged. No contact. I called a couple weeks later. Sorry we out of stock. Asked for a refund. Never got it. Was nearly at the end of the 90 day chargeback period. Called again, it shipped that day. Zero communication after the sale. It's all mass produced chinesium and they don't carry inventory. They instead stack orders and import quarterly on our money. ETA We had a nice older gentlemen member from Texas that has now passed from cancer. He purchased a saw and it took them three visits to his house over a 3 months period to get it operating for him. rockpickerforever was this member @shelty? Can you help find his HP saw experience thread?
Yes, sheltie .
forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/post/678618
ETA: Here's the entire thread: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/60397
Looking back, it seems Denny did have a lot of trouble with that Chinese made HP saw. But it looked to me that HP bent over backwards to fix things. There are a few more thread links I can post, if anyone is interested. J
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Apr 15, 2018 21:57:19 GMT -5
I had a horrible experience with them. Placed order, card charged. No contact. I called a couple weeks later. Sorry we out of stock. Asked for a refund. Never got it. Was nearly at the end of the 90 day chargeback period. Called again, it shipped that day. Zero communication after the sale. It's all mass produced chinesium and they don't carry inventory. They instead stack orders and import quarterly on our money. ETA We had a nice older gentlemen member from Texas that has now passed from cancer. He purchased a saw and it took them three visits to his house over a 3 months period to get it operating for him. rockpickerforever was this member @shelty? Can you help find his HP saw experience thread? Yes, sheltie. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/post/678618I bow to your ability. Wow! Thank you! |
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Apr 23, 2018 20:15:56 GMT -5
. . . ya know any cheap source? Yeah, the brown paper bags are free at the grocery store. : ) Not here they're not. 10 cents!  TheRock, I see you have discovered some of the design flaws with the BD-10. It turns out you can get a fair amount of crud on the motor housing without adversely affecting it though. Some sort of crud-deflector might be something you could design though. At our rock club they have the following low tech filtering method. 1. 10" trim saw (like the BD10, but no vice). On top of the table, up by the hinge to the deflector, "clean" oil enters the system through fish tank tubing or brass tubing (can't remember) with a little hand screw valve on it. Source of oil to be described at the end. 2. The oil drips down the space between the blade and the table and enters the tank, getting on the blade at the same time. 3. The bottom of the tank contains a drain with a 1/4" (or something) line to The Settling Bucket. This is just a steel bucket - an old paint bucket or something. I don't know where on the tank this drain line is situated. I bet it is on the side about an inch up though, not on the bottom. But, you never know. 4. The Settling Bucket has an overflow line drilled in it about 3/4 of the way up. I think. I haven't looked at it lately. 5. The overflow line leads to the Clean Oil Bucket. There is a submersible pump in the bottom of the clean oil bucket, pushing "clean" oil back up to the saw. It turns out most of the crud settles out in the Settling Bucket, and the oil feeding to the pump is usually pretty clean, unless somebody cuts psilomelane. The only design flaw is that sometimes the tubing gets clogged, and somebody has to put their mouth on it and blow it out. Eww. I mean, I blow out the crud from the water lines on my CabKing, but that's just water and cat hair! Something like this might work on the BD10, and pretty easy to implement if you've modified your cart to accommodate the bottom drain. Probably works best if the saw is used regularly, so the crud never dries in the lines. Question: did you use the saw with water at all? It would be interesting to hear your comparison with water and (say) Gemlube versus with oil. In terms of blade life and cleanup hassle. I ask this because when I used water with Gem Lube, the water would mostly dry between uses, and the crud in the bottom of the saw would dry up and crack into chunks, and I could just pick up the chunks of dried crud pretty easily (or most of it anyway), making it so that I never really needed to fully swamp out the saw. |
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Post by glennz01 on Apr 24, 2018 15:00:32 GMT -5
I use a cooler pump to clean it out after every use. One bucket for clean oil
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Post by TheRock on Apr 30, 2018 5:36:18 GMT -5
. . . ya know any cheap source? Yeah, the brown paper bags are free at the grocery store. : ) Not here they're not. 10 cents! TheRock , I see you have discovered some of the design flaws with the BD-10. It turns out you can get a fair amount of crud on the motor housing without adversely affecting it though. Some sort of crud-deflector might be something you could design though. At our rock club they have the following low tech filtering method. 1. 10" trim saw (like the BD10, but no vice). On top of the table, up by the hinge to the deflector, "clean" oil enters the system through fish tank tubing or brass tubing (can't remember) with a little hand screw valve on it. Source of oil to be described at the end. 2. The oil drips down the space between the blade and the table and enters the tank, getting on the blade at the same time. 3. The bottom of the tank contains a drain with a 1/4" (or something) line to The Settling Bucket. This is just a steel bucket - an old paint bucket or something. I don't know where on the tank this drain line is situated. I bet it is on the side about an inch up though, not on the bottom. But, you never know. 4. The Settling Bucket has an overflow line drilled in it about 3/4 of the way up. I think. I haven't looked at it lately. 5. The overflow line leads to the Clean Oil Bucket. There is a submersible pump in the bottom of the clean oil bucket, pushing "clean" oil back up to the saw. It turns out most of the crud settles out in the Settling Bucket, and the oil feeding to the pump is usually pretty clean, unless somebody cuts psilomelane. The only design flaw is that sometimes the tubing gets clogged, and somebody has to put their mouth on it and blow it out. Eww. I mean, I blow out the crud from the water lines on my CabKing, but that's just water and cat hair! Something like this might work on the BD10, and pretty easy to implement if you've modified your cart to accommodate the bottom drain. Probably works best if the saw is used regularly, so the crud never dries in the lines. Question: did you use the saw with water at all? It would be interesting to hear your comparison with water and (say) Gemlube versus with oil. In terms of blade life and cleanup hassle. I ask this because when I used water with Gem Lube, the water would mostly dry between uses, and the crud in the bottom of the saw would dry up and crack into chunks, and I could just pick up the chunks of dried crud pretty easily (or most of it anyway), making it so that I never really needed to fully swamp out the saw. Susan, I have been meaning like 4 ever to send ya a PM and ask you if you have taken the plunge in the Oil yet? I went and bought a gal of gem lube but then read some stuff saying it bucks up the aluminum parts on the saw so I dunno?  That has nothing to do with why I haven't tried water yet just to many things in the fire right now. So you have a CabKing too huh? That's my next project getting that Bad Boy hooked up. As far as trying water Ill prolly stick with Oil I have a Aluminum plate made with a 4" Aluminum nipple I plan on Tig welding to the bottom of the BD saw adding a 1" Full Port Ball Val valve that way I can at least dump the dirty oil and crud in a bucket to be recycled. BD IS SO STUPID by not beefing up the bottom of the saw adding threads so a Guy can add a Ball Valve instead of that cheap arse rubber plug! Anyways I have been busy working on other home projects. Even being retired there is never enuff time in a day.  ~Duke |
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Post by Peruano on Apr 30, 2018 16:51:52 GMT -5
You can add the ball valve, but you will be sending it to the recycling center in a few months. The fine moong we call rock mucous has a way of fouling the ball valves with very little exposure. Nothing replaces a good threaded cap.
Oh and there is no such thing as clean oil except in saws that are not used. Just saying.
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Post by Rockoonz on Apr 30, 2018 19:10:49 GMT -5
I have used ball valves with no major issues but I also put a plug behind it just in case. Reason I quit using them is the longer length of drop tends to get plugged up during draining and sometimes it's harder to get a bucket under it. The BD10 is a trim saw that can occasionally cut slabs, it is not and will never be a dedicated slab saw, and cannot be made into one. This is what slab saws look like...   |
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Post by woodman on Apr 30, 2018 20:00:52 GMT -5
I have used ball valves with no major issues but I also put a plug behind it just in case. Reason I quit using them is the longer length of drop tends to get plugged up during draining and sometimes it's harder to get a bucket under it. The BD10 is a trim saw that can occasionally cut slabs, it is not and will never be a dedicated slab saw, and cannot be made into one. This is what slab saws look like... No fair, you got pictures of my slab saw! |
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Post by Rockoonz on Apr 30, 2018 20:06:30 GMT -5
I have used ball valves with no major issues but I also put a plug behind it just in case. Reason I quit using them is the longer length of drop tends to get plugged up during draining and sometimes it's harder to get a bucket under it. The BD10 is a trim saw that can occasionally cut slabs, it is not and will never be a dedicated slab saw, and cannot be made into one. This is what slab saws look like... No fair, you got pictures of my slab saw! Which one? Jenkins (Royal) 10" or Nelson 12"? Or are you referring to how cruddy the Jenkins is? |
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Post by woodman on Apr 30, 2018 20:51:25 GMT -5
They both look like my 18 lortone, muddy!
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on May 5, 2018 21:38:47 GMT -5
I know a guy who purchased this unit for use on his new HP 36" saw. He said it is so incredibly noisy he can't even stand to run it. Never uses it. I agree with rockoonz about the quality. I also agree it's wasted on a small saw.
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but why in the world don't you guys use water soluble oils think about it what are you trying to protect a metal blade. These oils are designed to cool ,lubricate prevent rust,eliminate misting in metal grinding and cutting at extremely high speeds. Most are a mineral oil base and now days biodegradable, costs vary but more than adequate versions are in the $30 per gal range with a mix ratio of 10:1 makes 10 gal @$3/ gal. I've been using this stuff for years and find it superior to all other oils I have used .
That has nothing to do with why I haven't tried water yet just to many things in the fire right now. So you have a CabKing too huh? That's my next project getting that Bad Boy hooked up. As far as trying water Ill prolly stick with Oil I have a Aluminum plate made with a 4" Aluminum nipple I plan on Tig welding to the bottom of the BD saw adding a 1" Full Port Ball Val valve that way I can at least dump the dirty oil and crud in a bucket to be recycled. BD IS SO STUPID by not beefing up the bottom of the saw adding threads so a Guy can add a Ball Valve instead of that cheap arse rubber plug! Anyways I have been busy working on other home projects. Even being retired there is never enuff time in a day. 
~Duke
Nov 15, 2024 17:44:51 GMT -5
Nov 15, 2024 17:44:51 GMT -5
