QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Aug 15, 2023 19:55:24 GMT -5
Very sorry to read this, there's nothing like the love of a good dog!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 31, 2023 17:48:47 GMT -5
Found a good sized stump of a log at Congleton hollow, won't fit my 24"... I sure wish we had those kinds of problems here in the mid-Atlantic states!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 31, 2023 17:42:22 GMT -5
I believe that my Poly Arbor D-14 and D-4 housings are cast aluminum. But the Poly Arbor line was made for over forty years. And by more than one producer. So I couldn't say for sure that they all were aluminum. Here is a scan of a Poly Arbor (Pasadena, CA) ad from a 1949 machine trade magazine where the description just says "Heavy Casting". My Poly Arbors were probably made in the early to mid 1970s in Monrovia, CA. And here is a Poly Arbor ad from a 1980 magazine after Raytech (Stafford Springs, CT) bought out the Poly Arbor line and began producing them in Connecticut. My D-14 appears to have a blue "hammered aluminum" paint finish. Hammered Aluminum paint is still available in aerosol cans. And it's been a few years since I checked but at that time it was available in the color similar to the finish on Poly Arbor and Raytech equipment. So if I were restoring a Poly Arbor housing I would be inclined to just strip off the old finish and then coat it with a "hammered" finish paint. That would be much less expensive than powder coating or anodizing and if someone wanted to restore the finish again in 30 or 40 years it will be much easier for them to redo. Those are very cool old ads. Mine is also made in Monrovia. You make a good point about a re-doable finish. I'm just hoping that I'm not the one having to redo it a few years from now if the spray paint doesn't like the wet, gritty environment. As long has the new paint has a good clean surface to adhere to then it should last a long time. Many of the older cabbing machines were painted and you can still find machines decades old that still have their original paint. Especially the aluminum ones that were painted like the B&I Gem Makers, Beacon Star and U.S. made Highland Park machines. Some of the older painted steel machines like the later Star Diamond models, and the earlier pre-stainless Lortones didn't hold up as well because the steel rusted. But most of the painted aluminum ones have done fine under normal comnditions.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 31, 2023 14:44:56 GMT -5
As for the large container with the faded label, if when mixed with water the powder tends to settle to the bottom of the contianer fairly quickly when undisturbed then it may be Raybrite"A", or Raybrite "B", or Raybrite TL. All are Aluminum Oxide, just in differing microns.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 31, 2023 14:33:24 GMT -5
Raytech's polishing compounds started with a "37" prefix i.e. 37-031 (1lb tin oxide), 37-012 (1lb Raybrite A). Their polishing and finishing discs began with the "38" prefix i.e. 38-015 (6" felt disc), 38-022 (6"x1-1/2" leather belt).
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 31, 2023 13:54:26 GMT -5
I believe that my Poly Arbor D-14 and D-4 housings are cast aluminum. But the Poly Arbor line was made for over forty years. And by more than one producer. So I couldn't say for sure that they all were aluminum. Here is a scan of a Poly Arbor (Pasadena, CA) ad from a 1949 machine trade magazine where the description just says "Heavy Casting". My Poly Arbors were probably made in the early to mid 1970s in Monrovia, CA. And here is a Poly Arbor ad from a 1980 magazine after Raytech (Stafford Springs, CT) bought out the Poly Arbor line and began producing them in Connecticut. My D-14 appears to have a blue "hammered aluminum" paint finish. Hammered Aluminum paint is still available in aerosol cans. And it's been a few years since I checked but at that time it was available in the color similar to the finish on Poly Arbor and Raytech equipment. So if I were restoring a Poly Arbor housing I would be inclined to just strip off the old finish and then coat it with a "hammered" finish paint. That would be much less expensive than powder coating or anodizing and if someone wanted to restore the finish again in 30 or 40 years it will be much easier for them to redo.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 22, 2023 2:11:14 GMT -5
About the time I was five I started picking up unusual rocks and bringing them home and leaving them all over the yard and the porch, much to my mother's discountenance and my father's befuddlement. They were sure that there must be something seriously wrong with me. And I suppose a legitimate argument could have been made that there was. When I was seven, a second grade classmate brought a rock collection that his uncle had given him to school for show & tell (hook sunk). Then for the next couple of years I spent a lot of time combing through rock and mineral books at the public library. The library would only let me check out the rock books published for children because I wasn't old enough to meet their criteria for checking the better rock books out of the adult section. So I had to view the better rock and mineral books on site at the library. Then when I was nine the local Rock & Gem Club started having their monthly meetings at said public library. So the second Tuesday evening of each month one of my parents would give me a shoulder roll in front of the library and two hours later come pick me up. Being a nine year old kid attending the Rock Club meetings on my own got the attention of some of the adults who gave me a lot of encouragement. Luckily for me one of the true rock/gem/fossil/artifact gurus of that generation took me under his wing and introduced me to lapidary. And a few years later used to invite me to travel to the gem shows with him. My parents still didn't get the rock fascination but relented and gave me a rock tumbler for Christmas of 1970 when I was nine years old. Then they gave me one of these Sears 4" cabbing machines (which I quickly wore out) the next year when I was ten. And then the Christmas of the following year (1972) was given a Sears 6" B&I Gem Maker flat lap with SC grinding and sanding discs which I used for cabbing for the next five or six years. Then my Dad helped me buy a 6" Lortone cabbing unit. I used that cabbing machine for around three decades on-again off-again. Around 1990 I bought my first faceting machine, a vintage used one with issues. Used that for a few months and then got so busy with work and life that it all got put aside for several years during which I sold the faceting machine and sold or gave away much of the slabs and rough. But later when the effects of NAFTA, GAFTA and China being Granted Favored Nation Trading Status freed up a good bit of my time, my interest in lapidary revived. I replaced my faceting machine, acquired a growing collection of slab saws and started buying old collections for the cutting rough, refurbishing the equipment when required, and reselling any of it that I didn't need for my use. These days my lapidary activities are mostly just slabbing, cabbing, and faceting. I'm sixty-two years old now and have brought unusual rocks home which have been left all over the yard and the porch, much to my wife's discountenance and my neighbor's befuddlement. And I'm pretty sure that they all think that there must be something seriously wrong with me ...and I suppose a legitimate argument could be made that there is!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 21, 2023 23:54:59 GMT -5
Assuming that yours is made the same then yes, after loosening all of the set screws from both housing/bearing protective sleeves and the step pulley (there are usually at least two set screws on a 3-step pulley) you can tap or press the arbor towards the end that has the snap ring. But before you do be sure to run the arbor nuts to the end of the threaded shaft and maybe just a slight bit more so the nuts will protect the threaded ends of the shafts from getting marred or dented. Also it will help to put a few drops of Kriol or some other good joint loosening penetrating oil on both ends of the shaft and let soak a few minutes before attempting to move the shaft.
Once the shaft has been moved enough to push the bearing next to the snap ring out of it's position in the aluminum housing then remove the nut, flange washer, and the housing/bearing protective sleeve from the end that is being pressed and then use a block of softwood (pine will do) to protect the threads on the end of the shaft being pressed/tapped until the shaft is loose enough to pull out from the snap ring end. Then using a long metal punch or hardwood dowel, from the opposite end tap out the other bearing out of it's position from the aluminum housing. But don't get too rough doing this because those aluminum housings can crack.
Now you can clean up all of the parts with WD-40 and 0000 steel wool. And any rusted areas with 3in1 oil and 0000 steel wool and a fine wire brush like the small ones that Harbor Freight sells for around a buck.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 21, 2023 17:06:37 GMT -5
Those old Star Diamond Meteor blades were pretty good blades!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 15, 2023 20:13:17 GMT -5
Well done! Thank you for the post!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 13, 2023 23:46:24 GMT -5
Maybe Medicine Bow Agate? If so not necessarily slabbed in the direction to best exhibit the full plume profiles. Still makes an interesting cab though.
And kudos for your band saw conversion! We would love to see separate thread for that!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 12, 2023 1:07:51 GMT -5
Yes you are right about that motor is sounding pretty rough with the belt off in your video. I'm surprised at how rough it does sound. As Rockoonz advised, if there are oil holes for the bearings then lube them and see if that helps. If there are not and the motor has ball bearings then the bearings are probably shot. If you do decide to go with a new motor a 1/3hp will be plenty powerful for a D-14 poly Arbor. I'm not sure how much difference in noise a resilient mounted motor will have. Any motor similar to the one linked below should fit the bill. www.zoro.com/dayton-split-phase-belt-drive-motor-13-hp-56z-frame-115v-ac-voltage-1-725-nameplate-rpm-6k030/i/G1381256/#specificationsGood luck!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 10, 2023 22:54:17 GMT -5
As far as rock grinding noise goes I once bought a used faceting machine at an estate sale where the previous owner had set up acoustical screens around their faceting station to dampen the noise so not to bother others in the house. Commercially made acoustical screens can be kind of pricey unless you can find some used ones at an office going out of business sale or from a business liquidating company. But there are several on-line sources that show how to make inexpensive DIY acoustic panels.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 10, 2023 22:16:11 GMT -5
When the belt is not connected to the arbor and you turn the motor on does it sound similarly bad? Bearings in motors can get worn too and need replacing and motor arbors can get bent but the later is not common.
That noted, the noise in your video is not normal for a D-14 Poly Arbor. Those arbors generally run pretty smooth. It may be that the bearings have gone bad and need replacing. Before buying a new motor or new bearings I would first make sure that the pulley on the motor and the pulley on the arbor are not visibly misshapen. Soft alloy pulleys can become misshapen from metal fatigue or from someone having removed or reinstalled the belt over the pulley without releasing/easing the tension. Then I would make sure that the two pulleys are perfectly aligned with each other and that the setscrews are firmly tightened. This may even require shifting the motor if whoever originally mounted it didn't get the motor shaft perfectly perpendicular to the belt/pulley alignment. But likely would just require loosening the pulley set screws and sliding them a little on their shafts to align them using a straight edge. Most of that type Poly Arbor came with either a two, or a three step pulley so just make sure that the motor pulley is aligned with the section of the step pulley for your desired speed. If the pulleys are not properly aligned this can cause really bad vibrations and noise (especially bad if the motor is not perpendicular as mentioned).
I can't tell for sure from the video but it appears that you are using SC grinding wheels. If so, these types of wheels can fairly easily get out of round and out of balance. And this can cause vibration. So try taking the wheels off and start the machine and see if you still have the noise.
If none of these are the issue then next I would change the bearings on both ends of the arbor. Bearings for these are not very expensive but sometimes can be a little tricky to change on a Poly Arbor without a bearing press. So if you don't have access to a press or aren't comfortable doing the job yourself then you may want to take it to a machine shop or motor repair shop and have them change the bearings. It only takes a few minutes to do with the right equipment and know-how so should not be too costly to have done.
If the problem persists then, and only then would I look for a new motor. Worst case scenario if it comes to that after having done all of the above you should then have one sweet running cabbing arbor for a long time to come.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 8, 2023 19:06:34 GMT -5
Very nice old E-50! Your set-up is similar to mine except much better looking! My first vertical wheeled cabbing machine was a 6" Lortone unit that I cabbed with from 1977 up until almost twenty years ago. In the early 90s I also acquired a Poly Arbor similar to yours but with 8" x 3" expando sanding drums. Somewhere around 2005 I picked up the modified HP E-50 unit pictured below at an estate sale and found that for me the 8" wheels way outlasted 6" wheels, more so than just proportionate to the size difference. So that E-50 has been my primary grinding machine ever since. I especially like using the tool rest for pre-forming. It really helps minimize the finger, hand and wrist fatigue and damage. The tool rest on the HP E-50 is much more useful with the hard wheels so at some point you may want to reconfigure your wheel line-up. When I first switched over to NOVA sanding wheels I originally did mount one NOVA (the 280gt) in the section of arbor (between the two pillow block bearings) with my hard wheels. But the soft NOVA wheels wear out much faster than hard grinding wheels so I found that to be a mistake since on the E-50 you have to basically disassemble most of the unit to change the wheels mounted between the pillow block bearings. So I changed my line-up to only have hard wheels on the section of arbor between the pillow blocks and only use the NOVA wheels on the end section of arbor where they can be replaced by only having to remove one nut and one washer. And since there was only room for two NOVA wheels on that end section of the arbor I mounted my 280 and 600 grit NOVAs there, and mounted the 1200 and 3000 grit NOVAs on the Poly Arbor unit next to the HP unit. IMHO Life is too short to spend anymore time than absolutely necessary disassembling and reassembling lapidary equipment!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 6, 2023 17:33:30 GMT -5
I don't use the PSA pads for lapidary but I did use the PSA sanding discs for a while when I was a furniture repairman many years ago. And switched to the hook & lock backing pads for the very reasons you're mentioning. The PSA ones could be a @#$%^$ to remove from the rubber backing. Most backing adhesives I've seen do soften with heat so a hair dryer can loosen the adhesive grip a little but still may require some scrapping off while warm.
For lapidary resin discs I always bought the pads without the factory applied PSA adhesive and instead used "Lapidary Disc Cement" made by Leech. Once applied to the backing of a resin disc the disc can be peeled off and reattached several times without reapplication as long as it is kept clean. But I don't think Leech is still in business anymore but I have heard that 3M "Feathering Disc Adhesive" is similar and works for lapidary discs.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on May 26, 2023 17:44:57 GMT -5
Here is a link to a good set of standardized cabochon templates. These same style templates have been in production for over 50 years. The ovals and rectangles are the most common standardized sizes for those shapes and are the easiest to find commercial made settings for: www.rockshed.com/rock-shop/lapidary-equipment/other-useful-stuff/set-of-5-colored-templates/And as you mentioned the rounds are easy. As for most other shapes and sizes, if you want to set them, you're either going to have to learn to wrap and/or make settings. Or find someone else who can and is willing to do it for you. Howbeit, a Riker Mount case full of beautiful unset cabochons can stand alone on display most anywhere!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on May 11, 2023 20:33:32 GMT -5
It's my understanding that on those types of water pump bearings that they cut the threads into the shaft before they treat the steel to harden it and before they assemble it. I was once (just once) able to get a local machine shop to agree to cut threads into a generic already assembled water pump bearing shaft. Afterwards the shop owner said that he wished he hadn't agreed to do it. The hardened steel bearing shaft ruined three of his cutting bits.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Apr 25, 2023 0:39:04 GMT -5
For about 25-30 years I used canvas resin belts that I charged with diamond paste. Then for a few years I used 3M belts and for a while was happy with those. But about 15 years ago their quality went to crap. I was lucky to get two large agate cabs sanded before they wore smooth. So I switched to Diamond Pacific's NOVA wheels and have never looked back.
Since it's been 15 years it's possible that 3M may have recovered their quality somewhat out of necessity. I used to be a furniture repairman and had a contractor's account with our local 3M distributor so could get them at a good price. But there is no way I would pay current retail prices for 3M diamond belts based on my past experiences with them.
If using expandable sanding drums again I would try Eastwind or Crystalite. As for your Crystalite belt that came apart at the seam, back in the day that seemed to only happen to old stock belts (of all brands) where the adhesive had deteriorated with age. And learning to do all of your shaping on your hard wheels will work out better for you than using your 220 and 400 grit belts for shaping.
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