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Post by nowyo on Nov 4, 2014 20:31:38 GMT -5
This is certainly an interesting thread. I'm thinking that adding lime will raise the pH of the slurry/solution. Any thoughts as to how that may effect things? It will be interesting to see how thick of a slurry you can run and still get decent polishing action.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Nov 4, 2014 20:23:26 GMT -5
Nice lace.
Russs
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 23:51:59 GMT -5
Nice show, some really cool stuff therre.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 23:49:40 GMT -5
Those are great!
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 23:29:51 GMT -5
Nice job on those.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 23:17:31 GMT -5
Back in Jan. nowyo showed his propane cyl. tumbler. Shortly after that I had an opportunity to get both a helium cyl. [the take home size] and a propane cyl. for cheap, had to try it. I cut the ends open and welded a 2" long piece of 4" pipe on so as to use a rubber pipe cap. I built a simple frame that would drive either cyl. with only a minor change. Used a 1/6 H.P. motor. Someone mentioned John Sinkankas said 100 S.F.P.M. was a good roughing speed, used that as a baseline. The helium barrel loaded weighed 57 lb. average. I started it at 44 R.P.M. [108 S.F.P.M.] with green garden hose on the rollers. The hose lasted ~3 wks., and I found notching it for the weld bead in the center of the cyl. only accelerated wear. After a couple hoses, I went to Gates green stripe radiator hose, lasted very well. Also started it on bronze bushing pillow blocks given to me, they lasted 72 run days and required daily oiling, replaced w/ball bearing pillow blocks. I had it tipped just enough to always run against a suction cup in a bearing on one end, but between day 86 & 87, it switched ends, got up against the set collars used to hold the rods in the bushing blocks, and to control hose creep, and sawed a fatal notch in the upper end of the barrel. Used 16 grit up in 5-6 days. When I had enough sorted, I ran an 80 grit run. Then I went to the propane cyl. started at 32 R.P.M. [99 S.F.P.M.] and ate 16 grit completely at 4-5 days, but broke and chipped too much. Slowed it to 27 [83 surface feet], and still had too much breakage. Ate the 16 grit at 5-6 days. This thing is heavy, ran it full to 4" from the end of the pipe, weighed ave. 107 lbs. Built a lifting frame w/garage sale stuff so as to be able to dump it into a bucket, handtrucked the bucket to my washing table for the clean and sort. When enough was sorted, I made an 80 grit run of 6-7 days. It's wet out now and my dump area will turn to mud, so in the spring, I'll slow it down more and try it again. Meanwhile, back to the double 5 gallon barrel set. All in all, a fun project, learned some things. A couple downsides: noise, measured generally 72 to 80 db at ten ft. distance. I had one load in the propane barrel wear and get loose real fast, db hit 90. I ran it in an insulated shed that makes the noise level tolerable. 60 db is considered normal conversation. The other disadvantage is I couldn't tumble rocks too big to fit thru thru the pipe. Big advantage: Using the rubber plug on the pipe is vastly easier than all the studs on my plastic barrels. If I had the cylinders readily available, I think I would run the helium cylinders, much easier to handle. For anyone interested, Freon cylinders are the same as the small helium ones, and my local auto parts sells about 20 per year. Auto air conditioning and HVAC outfits use them. While it's pretty scary that anyone would want to copy something I've done I have to say you did a great job with that. Love the lift for emptying. I'm dumb enough that I just pick it up and dump it out. Those Helium tanks look like they'd be a great size. It's loud. I'm apt to be wearing ear protection in the shop anyways (power tools and whatnot) so I don't worry about it much. Probably wouldn't work well in an attached garage. Splitting the hoses for the center weld seemed like a good idea at the time but turned out to be a wasted effort. I've been running clear plastic hose on the shafts simply because I had a bunch of it hanging around. I like the radiator hose idea. I've been playing with speeds, it's currently running 42 rpm, started at about 30. Too fast, I'll drop it down to the mid 20's probably, next time around. It does fracture rocks. I'll usually load it up dry and let it run a day or two just to break things up, then load up with water and grit. All I have run in it is self collected stuff, and an awful lot of what we find is fractured. I only use it for the initial rough grinding, once things have gotten rounded/smoothed pretty good they go to the Thumler B for a little ride just to really get them ready to move on without smashing them any more. Your grit usage times pretty much mirrors mine, although it usually ends up running until I have time to unload it. Gotta love those handtrucks! I use mine to move the darn thing all the time. Lifting and dumping are one thing, but I ain't carrying that very far if I can help it. Really like your double 5 gallon set up. Sweet! On another thread a while back the idea came up about venting the barrel. I've tried poking a hole with an ice pick and this is what happens until the slurry plugs the hole. Makes a mess, hey it was worth a try. Very cool post, thanks for sharing. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 20:15:14 GMT -5
Cool finds, glad to hear Jimmy is getting around a little.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 15, 2014 9:13:18 GMT -5
Nice finds. The forth rock is from the portabellow variety. Yours looks to be very nicely preserved. lol Portabelo! I like it. Rus
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Post by nowyo on Oct 15, 2014 9:12:48 GMT -5
WOW Great stuff. I have a smaller piece like the one in the second photo sitting by the trim saw (some day). The banding in that last one is sweet as hell. I don't think I have run across anything as good as that in the last five years. The "no idea" one is probably the same on the inside as it is on the outside. I found a part of one that was a lot bigger and thought it was a fossil. I took it to the new museum in Greybull and the guy there told me what it was but I can not remember for sure. I do remember him saying that it is just the way a rock forms sometimes. May have been chert. The slab from the rock you found next to the road has some awesome pattern to it. Kind of Lysitey. Where is the grand daddy that you sledded out? Super curious. Guess I am going to have to go see it anyway whether you show it here or not. lol Jim That last stone is the only one I've found like that. That's the problem, every time we go out we find something a little different so we just have to keep going. That big rock is out on the jade pallet. Guess you'll just have to come down and check some of this stuff out. Really, you made the right choice not going that day. The second spot wasn't all that great. My watch quit, my phone went dead, it was cloudy-had no idea what time it was and stayed a lot longer than we planned to. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 15, 2014 8:53:30 GMT -5
I have a silly question. Why not poke a pin hole or two in the cap? Something small enough that liquid can't escape, but a built up gas could use to vent out? Might have to experiment with hole sizes, but start small and work your way up. No matter how hard we may try to make it so, this ain't rocket surgery. Tried that, captbob. Used an ice pick to poke a hole in the center of the cap. It sort of works but the rubber is self-healing, and sludge plugs the hole. If the hole is too big it just leaks and makes a mess. Would be fun to play around with a little more. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 15, 2014 8:47:39 GMT -5
ah, the propane tank. I remember now. It is a great idea and will tumble a lot of rock. Steel lasts a long time as it is slow to wear from tumbling. A tank that size from the factory or made of PVC would cost a bunch. I am thinking that is the most inexpensive large tumbler that could be built. And easy to access rubber Fernco caps that show gas build up. That roller set up is sweet. I found 5-6 rollers like that and just replace them when they go bad. I see your guide roller has 2 bolts holding it for fast replacement. both shafts driven is a must. Like the heavy shafts allowing bigger bearings. 30 and 40 RPM is stroking for that size tank. My 6 inch PVC is fast at 60 RPM. They are actually 7.5 inches outside diameter. Surface speed of that bigger tank probably a good bit faster at 40 RPM. questions Do the rubber hoses on the shafts have a gap in the center to keep the tank's center weld off the shaft ? Is that a 1/3 HP motor. Get hot ? Did you weld a steel 4 inch pipe to the top of the tank for the rubber cap ? 60-70-80 pound capacity ? do you run 3/4 full ? i had a strange thing happen to my bearings after 2 years. They are also self centering pillar blocks like yours, but imports. I ran for about 3 months w/a slightly leaking barrel and slurry collected on 2 bearings on one side. The bearing never seemed to go bad but the bearing started spinning at the outer race and the self centering socket. You could jam a screw driver at the joint and the bearing would spin fine. It finally wore the self centering socket to over a 1/4 inch of play. it ran fine and had little friction until it started squeaking. changed the 2 bearings , no problem. Had I used Sealmasters that may not have happened. But it had a thick coating of dried slurry caked on the bearing. what bearing would take that ha. the cool thing about that design is it can be built on a wood frame and no metal skills required. Dang nice machine. PS- Russ, please burp that barrel before calamity occurs. Thanks. Yeah, couldn't come up with a cheaper way to build a big tumbler. Now, to answer your questions. Gaps in the hoses on the shafts-Left the gap due to the center seam on the tank. If you look at the picture, though, you can see that the center of the tank has "sucked in". Kind of weird. 1/3 hp motor, runs warm but not overly hot. Yes, cut out the valve on the tank and welded on a stub of 4 inch pipe. I've been running it around 2/3 to 3/4 full, only weighed the rocks going in a couple of times but that seems to be right around 50 lbs. per load. I got those pillow blocks from Surplus Center, so I expect they'll wear out faster than, say, Fafnir. For the price I think they can be replaced a few times for the cost of more expensive bearings. At 42 rpms that thing does spin right along. Thanks for looking. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 22:39:27 GMT -5
Some great stuff there!
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 22:25:02 GMT -5
Interesting experiment, looking forward to seeing phase 2 and phase 3. Thanks for posting this.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 22:18:02 GMT -5
Gentlemen, your assessments and comments are right on. I have two Lortones and the Thumler B. While they all have their good points they also all have their weaknesses, the biggest of which is, in my opinion, the plastic bushings. I'm going to need to put new ones on the QT6 pretty soon. The "black gunk" Connrock speaks of is a pain-barrel guides are another. I also have a homebuilt I threw together with real bearings, real pulleys, real belt. Works fine, still playing around with it before I scale it up. Swapped a couple of different motors onto it, switched pulleys to play with different rpms, changed guide wheel configuration a couple of times. Honestly convinced that a person can build a better unit cheaper than buying the hobby type stamped steel frame things out there. Haven't played with vibes at all, but good on the Lot-O people for a Lifetime guarantee. Russ Please post photos of it Russ. Would love to see your tumbler. Here it is. In the pic it needs to be burped. Notice the guide wheel clamped in place-been playing with different setups. It's dirty because a couple days before the picture was taken I was late with burping and it blew the rubber cap off. Made a nice mess. It is running at 42 rpms in it's current setup, I'll run it like that for a couple more loads to get a better feel for it but it seems to be working faster than it did at 30 rpms. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 21:42:55 GMT -5
Took a few pictures of some of the rocks after we got them home. No idea what this might be. This is a slab from that chunk of agate I found next to the road. Small slab from another rock we found that day. And I'll leave you with this one. Thanks for looking again. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 21:30:02 GMT -5
Next step is a little mule to drag the sled. Looks like you guys had a great time. Keep thinking one of those burros at the BLM auction would come in handy. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 14, 2014 21:28:40 GMT -5
Russ,great photos and score on rocks!!! Is that the "Hell Creek" formation in your area??? Sure looks like it.. You ever find dino bone or fossils in that area too?? Mike, no Hell Creek down here, no dino bones in that area. Now, not too far away there are some. Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 11, 2014 23:40:18 GMT -5
Just saw this-outstanding job!
Rusd
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Post by nowyo on Oct 11, 2014 23:33:10 GMT -5
What they've all said. Great job ont that.
Russ
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Post by nowyo on Oct 11, 2014 23:29:41 GMT -5
Gentlemen, your assessments and comments are right on. I have two Lortones and the Thumler B. While they all have their good points they also all have their weaknesses, the biggest of which is, in my opinion, the plastic bushings. I'm going to need to put new ones on the QT6 pretty soon. The "black gunk" Connrock speaks of is a pain-barrel guides are another. I also have a homebuilt I threw together with real bearings, real pulleys, real belt. Works fine, still playing around with it before I scale it up. Swapped a couple of different motors onto it, switched pulleys to play with different rpms, changed guide wheel configuration a couple of times. Honestly convinced that a person can build a better unit cheaper than buying the hobby type stamped steel frame things out there. Haven't played with vibes at all, but good on the Lot-O people for a Lifetime guarantee. Russ Please post photos of it Russ. Would love to see your tumbler. Posted a pic of it last winter, I'll get a new one tomorrow and post it. Not a lot of change, but I've learned a few things in the process. Russ
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