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Post by krazydiamond on Aug 27, 2007 13:04:04 GMT -5
Let me preface this thread with: "I DON'T want this to turn into a nasty thread  ", but i would like to hear your opinions on this latest controversy. My personal opinion is that hurting and killing animals is right up there with messing with kids and beatin' up on old people. 12-18 months just ain't enough time to pay the debt for this crime. but, on the other hand, does Vick deserve a second chance if he really (and sincerely) turns his life around? should he be allowed to play football again once he's properly punished? what do you all think is fair?  KD |
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Post by hermatite on Aug 27, 2007 13:11:16 GMT -5
Newp...no second chance...because as all the pundits say...it's not about the dogfighting its about the gambling on the dogifighting. Pete Rose didn't get a second chance. Vick shouldn't either. AND he should return the 22 million signing bonus because he lied when asked about the dog fighting.
But yes...bloodsports...I don't get it. Cockfighting, bull fighting, dog fighting...heck even that extreme fighting that people do (although admittedly they aren't hung or drowned for performing badly) I think are such a throwback to the Roman days when animals and people were tortured and killed for the amusement of the masses. I don't think I'm some PETA advocate when I say that dogfighting is ...well...sick.
If Vick turns his life around, good for him. In fact I hope he does. I'd like to believe there is hope for all of us who have fallen or disappointed those who believed in us. But should he get to play professional football? Newp.
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Post by Cher on Aug 27, 2007 13:13:36 GMT -5
12 - 18 months is not even worth the effort nor the cost that we are paying to prosecute him, he should get no less than five years. And NO NO NO NO NO!!! He should absolutely NOT be allowed to play football ever again.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 27, 2007 13:16:36 GMT -5
I guess I'm kinda odd but I don't mind people pounding on each other because for people it's a choice thing. Don't care about the betting because it's rampant in sports anyway. I'm a dog lover so no forgiveness from me and I won't even go into what I think this scumbag's punishment should be cause it would gross y'all out!....Mel
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2007 13:18:18 GMT -5
Being a pet owner AND Pet Groomer, dogs are my life. I agree.........its like beating up on kids or the elderly BUT people do make mistakes. If we were all labeled for every mistake we make throughout our lives we would probably all be considered horrible people. I know Ive made mistakes in my life and Im glad that people do not judge me because of them. But on the other hand, with dog fighting you pretty much know you are doing something horrible. He is being punished but who is to say if it is enough? That is a hard question to answer.
Shannon
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Post by takilasunrise on Aug 27, 2007 13:53:53 GMT -5
Dogfighting is illegal. Period. Gambling, for the most part, is illegal. Period. Torturing animals for the fun of it is unethical and immoral. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out that just because you've become a highly paid athlete (and a person that kids look up to and hope to be like someday) doesn't put you above the law. Should he pay his debt to society? Yes. Should he be able to play professional sports again. I say no, but unfortunately, others before him have gone back, like Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was able to go back into professional sports after serving time for rape, but Pete Rose couldn't because he was betting on games? Something sure is not quite right here. I personally believe he should not be allowed to re-enter the NFL. Let him try to find a job like every other felon. Yeah, there are employers willing to give felons a second chance in life, but there are just some jobs that you have to have a clean record to obtain, and being a professional athlete that people idolize is not the place for a felon, especially for someone that would condone and participate in dogfighting. Some news channel reported that this is a "cultural" practice!  I have a hard time believing that every African-American grew up with dogfighting; that it was brought over to America with the slaves and they've been doing it for hundreds of years. Give me a break! And just because a practice is "cultural" doesn't make it right, such as bullfighting, cockfighting, etc. (see this link for more animal cruelty for fun and/or to prove bravado or machismo) www.faace.co.uk/index.htm(Please, understand, I am not trying to pick on just one culture, only that I have heard of this one the most.) And yes, Mr. Vick, since you did not fulfill your obligation of the contract, the money should have to be paid back. |
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Aug 27, 2007 15:01:13 GMT -5
Before they lay me to rest, I want to see a proffessional big time boxing match say....in Las Vegas. (minus the drive by shooting...thank you very much) I have been able to see a UFC sponsored event where my son-in-laws brother fought for his "proffessional" ranking. It was one of the most exciting things I've ever seen. Having said that...
I would never go to see a bull fight or a cock fight, (git yer minds outta the gutter boys...) and yet, they are legal in certain countries or places. Not much we can do about that as we really have no right to dictate to others...so lets just talk about us here in the States.
It makes my skin crawl. I want to vomit. If I were privy to all of the evidence against %rick...I mean Vick...I'd probably want to beat the hell out of him and I'm not a violent person. Dog fighting is WRONG. There is no way anyone could EVER justify it. I have heard radio & TV programs where the public is sitting on the fence about it. They don't understand why people are making such a big deal about it & that #@ick...er, I mean Vick, really didn't do anything THAT bad. The hosts of these shows have actually said..."well...the thing he's gonna get nailed on is actually the GAMBLING part". THE GAMBLING PART? Maybe someone should stop smokin the CRACK!
I hate it. Let #%ick...er...I mean Vick, be sentenced. Hurt him in his wallet first off...then make him serve time/and a VERY long probation in which HE'S got to pay for his own incarceration and such. (tax payers unite!) But above all:
DO NOT LET THAT MAN EVER EARN ONE DIME IN A PROFFESSIONAL SPORT AGAIN!
Let him earn a living...that's his right. But he should carry the stigma of cruelty for the rest of his life.
He's not a good man. Good men would never do what he did. Good people don't condone this stuff. (and before someone points this out...I'm talking about ANYONE that has an involvement in this type of horrid behavior.)
It should be prosecuted in the same way as someone hurting children and our elders. Maybe...even a little harsher. At least a human has the ability to speak out against it. Animals don't.
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Rockygibraltar
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,404
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Post by Rockygibraltar on Aug 27, 2007 22:53:56 GMT -5
Well said Liz, he isn't a good man and good men don't do these things. This isn't misguided kid type stuff. The details of this crime indicate that this is "Jeffery Dahlmer" type stuff. It's just freakish and thats is why it's illegal. I don't think Vic and his cronies should be punished more or less than the law allows but they need to be watched in the years to come to see where this pathology is going. He put waaaay to much time and expense into this thing for it to be just "immature". As far as Vic going back into the NFL I don't know if anyone would want anything to do with him or not.
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Aug 28, 2007 3:14:32 GMT -5
Unfortunately, proffessional sports teams will go after this guy (if they are allowed to) as long as he can make them a profit. It's ONLY about the $$.
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Post by krazydiamond on Aug 28, 2007 8:07:52 GMT -5
there is something wrong with our legal system then, if the guy can get more prison time/punishment for gambling than for abusing animals.
and this "finding Jesus" after getting caught reeks.
KD
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Post by Lady B on Aug 28, 2007 8:46:38 GMT -5
there is something wrong with our legal system then, if the guy can get more prison time/punishment for gambling than for abusing animals. and this "finding Jesus" after getting caught reeks. KD There is something very wrong with our legal system. A desperate person steals something in an act in which no one is physically hurt but the crime is a third strike and the criminal is sentenced to 25 years to life. The crime: stealing diapers for her baby. An adult chooses to get drunk and gets behind the wheel of a car. Has an accident on the highway. A medical doctor, father of four, stops to provide assistance to drunken driver. Another adult drunken driver careens into first accident instantly killing the doctor. The first driver gets a ticket for DUI, points against his license, must attend class, and has license suspended for 90 days (same driver spends 4 months in rehab so can drive upon release from hospital). Second driver has license revoked because this is 11th DUI offense. Is sentenced to 4 years in prison for INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER. Released after 7 months due to time spent before sentencing (2-3 months) and good behavior while in jail. Nicole Ritchie spends less than 2 hours in jail. Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Mel Gibson--all make a mockery of the Justice system. And the list goes on and on. If I thought Vick was sincere I would feel he deserved forgiveness and understanding from the general public. What I think is that he has a GREAT agent and publicist who coached him through his portrayal of remorseful, contrite, how-could-I-ever-have-done-that oscar-worthy super wealthy and therefore above-the-law athlete. Of course he'll play again. Isn't he just the epitome of what sportsmanship has become in the US? Don't we all want our children to have outstanding role models? It really doesn't matter to me if he spends time in jail or if he just spends his money. Eventually the Hounds of Hell will have their day with him! Lady B |
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Silver Lass
spending too much on rocks
diagonally parked in a parallel universe!
Member since March 2007
Posts: 395
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Post by Silver Lass on Aug 28, 2007 8:50:39 GMT -5
Living in Ga. and loving football. I do think that Vick should be banned for life. As a child in Va. he had dog fights, when he went to Va.tech he was dog fighting and they turned their backs because he was good at football. Atlanta falcons Arther Blank know he was bad newz(pardon the pun). Blank had someone following Vick and his buds to try and keep him out of trouble. He even wore his head scarf at the falcons games with "the name of his kennel. "bad newz kennel. He is sorry he got caught and now his life is in a tail spin. Yesterday I saw the whole speech he made and there was no remorse. He said he found Jesus and is putting everything in Gods hands for now" What does that mean "for Now". He was coached really well for that speech he made. Like the Peta tee shirt say "Save a pit bull castrate Vick"He has thrown water on his fans, flipped them the bird, gave a woman std. that was settled out of court. like being caught with drugs and guns. He has been sheltered but now it's bye bye Vick. He will never wear a falcons shirt again. People that have his shirt have given them to human societies to clean the kennels with.
that's my 0.02 cents. Go Pats (we are the champions of the world"
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onewomanarmy
has rocks in the head
Carpe Silicis!
Member since January 2007
Posts: 645
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Post by onewomanarmy on Aug 28, 2007 9:32:37 GMT -5
Amen Takila!
I'm a dog lover also - what dogs give us for what they get back is just amazing and something I think we would all do well to learn from...the unconditional love, the loyalty, the friendship, and the willingness to always clean up any mess I make in the kitchen. You just don't find those things in people easily. They are also dependent (for the most part) on people to feed them, protect them, keep them healthy - whether "human" or not, they are a living being and part of the wholeness that we all share. For these reasons, I think that the way people treat dogs reflects directly on their core person. It's hard for me to imagine the type of person that would do the things they do in dogfighting has the ability to have any compassion for other people in their hearts. How can you so disrespect any dependent living being in such heinous ways for your own enjoyment and then turn around and be able to empathize or relate to people on any deeper level?
As for his little show yesterday - he made sure to hit all the right spots - full responsibility, apologies, immature, needs to take this time to think, found Jesus, everyone makes mistakes...yada yada bs. Well coached - lots of nice soundbites there, but my guess is his only regret in all this is that he got caught. Vick repeatedly said in his apology he made a mistake - bull*$^%. A mistake is something you do - you realize you shouldn't have done - and you don't do it again/you learn from it. What Vick did was not a mistake - it was a conscious decision to abuse his power and abuse these dogs. Over and over. For years. Premeditated, repeated many times, with no remorse. Don't tell me you reject dog fighting - what's changed here in the last several months that all the sudden you realize that it's something to be rejected? You got caught - that's what changed. Otherwise you'd still be doing the same thing - torturing and killing innocent, dependent animals who want nothing more than your attention and a few kinds words. And a mess in the kitchen to clean up every once in a while.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by hermatite on Aug 28, 2007 9:39:35 GMT -5
You put it perfectly onewomanarmy! Right on every point.
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Post by sandsman1 on Aug 28, 2007 10:58:26 GMT -5
GAMBLING if he will bet on which dog will kill the other he will bet on his football games so he can never be trusted as a good sportsman ever again -- NO SECOND CHANCE
PS don't criminals usually wait a year or so before they find god and repent i guess hes just gettin a jump on things --his apology was a total joke and totally unbelievable what a buncha bull you could tell it was scripted and he kept remembering the lawyer yelling don't forget this and this and this and thank god for opening your eyes hahahaha
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Post by LCARS on Aug 28, 2007 11:30:06 GMT -5
I can ultimately accept the brutalities that are inherent to nature but I just can not condone unecessary intentional mistreatment and cruelty to animals. The punishment should fit the crime so how about "volunteering" at an animal shelter or wild animal refuge instead of doing time and paying a fine that doesn't even go toward the cause.  |
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Post by Tonyterner on Aug 28, 2007 13:19:08 GMT -5
Good points all. I also think he should be banned from football for life. I was never really on the Vick bandwagon anyway, good runner poor QB.
I believe his problems aren't necessarily that he is a bad person, I don't know him well enough to judge that, but I will say I think he's as dumb as a stump. Lack of education didn't help either. What he went to college? Did he actually ever go to class or pass a test. College football is way to big of a money maker for the schools to care if the players actually get a good education. Is he a victim of the system? I'm sure that is part of it, but only a small part. Lack of education doesn't excuse common sense and decency.
Although now I'm not so sure how dumb he is since he pulled out the "I found Jesus" card in his speech. I guess we should drop the charges, let him play football. Let us all forgive him because now he is a new person. (please note the sarcasm in the above paragraph)
Tony M
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Slydog
has rocks in the head
Member since February 2006
Posts: 555
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Post by Slydog on Aug 28, 2007 13:48:51 GMT -5
Everybody 'finds Jesus' when their butt is in a terrible jam. Of course Vick found Jesus. But--look at the Jeffrey Dahmer comment, every comment so far is 100% on the money. It's a small step from abusing animals to the death and then acting out viciously or deadly against people. History proves that.
I have yet to figure out why out and out criminals are allowed back in sports--baseball, basketball, football, etc. Why are they continuously rewarded with money?! No more pro sports for Vick. And I hope on the way to his lawyers office a rabid dog bites him someplace he considers important---and I don't mean his wallet!!!!!
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Post by takilasunrise on Aug 28, 2007 16:01:25 GMT -5
I feel sorry for anyone who disagrees with us and voices their opinion in this thread!
Everyone has made awesome points on this subject. Since I don't follow football all that closely, though I do like football, and I don't know anything about Mr. Vick besides his involvement in dogfighting, the additional info from Silver Lass was very interesting, but actually predictable! It's all about the mighty dollar! May be the fans of the Falcons need to question the Falcons owner, too, in covering it up or turning his back on it.
Yeah, Slydog, "bite him where it counts".............and I hope it's a big ol' mean pitbull and they have to use a pry bar to open his jaws in order to make him let go! He should be very familiar with the pry bar procedure.
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Aug 28, 2007 17:52:29 GMT -5
Tony...sorry my friend...I'm going to dissagree vigorously with you on the subject if he's a bad man.
There's lots of reasons people do bad things. Some are understandable. Some can be forgiven and/or excused.
Not this one.
I wish we could just watch this play out and have confidence that the "scales of justice" will weigh out. But it won't...and this cruel excuse of a man, will walk away and have the last laugh. You all just wait. IF he gets any jail time, it will be short. AND...he may even get to do time "Martha Style." Then some stupid ass people will get hold of him & the next thing ya know...he's talking to OUR children about any number of things and making another fortune.
Do I sound bitter? Considering he's a putz that hurts innocent things...maybe I am.
If I were related to him...I'd be ashamed and I publicly denounce him.
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", but i would like to hear your opinions on this latest controversy. 
