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Post by Roller on Jun 1, 2010 9:19:36 GMT -5
Hello guys ... I plan on rebuilding an old Highland Park 4 wheel unit ...(has been switched into a 5 wheel unit ) I have alot of questions that I am sure most of you can help me out with through the process and converting it over to diamond as well .. As for now I am working on the setup and the motor and oh yeah I still need to clean the whole thing ...lol I will get pictures up soon but I need to leave for work now soon ... The before and after pictures should be fun ... First question ...It is extremely dirty and has rock snot cached on it everywhere... Any good chemicals in aiding to remove the stubborn snot ?? Now for the setup and motor ... Number one I live in an apartment so I am setting this up inside my apartment ... To save room I was thinking of mounting the motor directly underneath the unit..It seems HP has a left a hole for this reason in the bottom of the unit ... My only concern there is if water splashes on the motor ? Can that destroy the motor ?Can you see any safety reasons for not doing it that way Originally I was going to placethe unit right in front of a eletrical outlet but now I am thinking of putting wheels on the stand so when in I use it I just wheel it out to the middle of the room ...If I do it this way I could also put hinges on a shelf for mounting the motor behind the unit ... Any suggestions ?
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Post by Roller on Jun 1, 2010 9:30:14 GMT -5
Also I would like to Thank everyone for there help and Iselwood (Pat) who gave me an amazing deal on the unit...Also its his birthday today ...Happy Birthday Pat !!
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 1, 2010 9:48:04 GMT -5
Yes HP (and others from that era) commonly had belt opening at bottom and rear. The club workshop where we used to live set up 2 old HP and a dozen Poly arbors with motors on hinged plates under the table. Never a problem with water in the motors. Speaking of water, overhead systems are notorious for throwing water. While you are planning your rolling cart keep in mind the floor around the unit will likely get wet.
As far as cleaning, I use degreasing solvent or gasoline and lots of manual labor. You might try taking the sump and hood (after removing shaft and bearings) to a do it yourself car wash or an automotive machine shop and see if they have a dip tank that will clean it without hurting the metal. A place that does sand blasting could be an option also.
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Post by Roller on Jun 1, 2010 10:01:58 GMT -5
Yeah that was my biggest original concern was the floor ( new carpet)getting wet and dirty ... I have not seen the machine run so I am not sure just how messy it will be ... I was hoping a small plastic dollar store drop cloth cut up each time would suffice .. If you think otherwise please tell ..
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 1, 2010 10:16:21 GMT -5
With minimal water and splash curtains over the wheels the plastic may work. I don't recall what the bottom pan looks like but if it can be valved and filled with water an air pump system that spritzes wheels from bottom would be a better choice. If sump is one piece you may have contamination issues. If you can find a plastic pan that fits in the sump or if the sump is in sections it would be better for coarser wheels be kept separate from the finer wheels.
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Post by Roller on Jun 1, 2010 10:28:21 GMT -5
The sump is two pieces ...one on the left for two wheels and one on the right for 3 wheels ... There is also drainage holes in each sump ... You are talking about the ones used on the genie ?? The air pump systems ... I havent looked into those yet but yes I can see them being less messy ...The system now is valved at the top and has hoses on the sumps ... already ... I think all I will need is something to supply the water at the top .... or I could look into prices on those spritzes sysytems as well .... Iam in the process of getting ready for work right now ... But I will try and get some pictures up by tommorrow or the next day ...I really appreciate the conversation and all your help ... Greg
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 1, 2010 10:45:51 GMT -5
Ok, biggest difference is overhead systems drop water on top of wheels. Wheels turn toward operator throwing excess on operator and floor in front of unit. Air systems spray wheel bottom, excess sprays on hood back. Pretty much only water on floor drips from your hands. Air systems run $30-$40 and I've seen posts here on making your own. Since your sump is in two sections it would work pretty well with coarsest 2 wheels together and finer three on the other. The drain hoses may attach to threaded barbed fittings. You should be able to replace the barbed connectors with cock valves. Of course you can try the overhead first. It would require either a submersibe pump, gravity feed or a pump sprayer to supply water. Or a water line or hose to a supply.
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Post by captbob on Jun 1, 2010 11:56:41 GMT -5
Hey Greg, just a thought, but have you considered using an expanding wheel (drum) or two in your new set-up? I don't think that you have posted a pic of your new unit, but on a couple of my units I have easy access to the end wheel so that I can change the belts (grits) on the expanding wheel in less than a minute. Personally, I'd go with an 80 grit wheel, and also use an expanding wheel for the higher (highest) grits, IF you can get to the wheel and change the belts easily. Out of my 8 wheels (between 3 machines) I don't even have a wheel over 220 grit, from there on everything is belts on expanding drums. Also, I think you mentioned that you're in an apartment. I don't know how your building is set up or how forgiving your neighbors are... but, your Highland Park unit is going to make some noise! You not going to be playing with some little Genie sized unit here ;D So, you may want to consider some sound proofing on the floor under the unit and maybe even the wall behind it. Those interlocking floor mats that you can get at any home improvement store may do the trick or you may have to MacGyver something else to keep the neighbors happy. Looking forward to before and after pics on your rebuild. Here is a B/A on one of mine: - didn't come with a belt guard I can even change the belt on the inside expanding wheel with out removing the outside wheel, just takes a few minutes. Edited to add another HP unit rebuild of mine just for you to see that they can clean up nicely.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 1, 2010 18:36:49 GMT -5
Wow, those should be inspirational to Greg. By the way, what size is the saw on the combo unit?
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Post by captbob on Jun 1, 2010 22:46:35 GMT -5
John, the blade & wheels on the 2nd machine are all 6" - the 1st machine all 8"
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 1, 2010 23:22:23 GMT -5
I thought so. I usually see a combo with an 8" saw and wheels. Tortuga should compare tank dimensions with you.
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Post by Roller on Jun 1, 2010 23:51:02 GMT -5
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 2, 2010 8:51:27 GMT -5
Looks like you have everything for overhead except a pump or pump sprayer. If the shiny drum in background is an "Exact Span" (two metal discs with a rubber cover) it would need to be on outside. You need to take the metal discs apart to change the belts. You also have to use specific (non-standard) belts and not available in diamond. If you go with drums use either Lortone expanding or Rayspan. They use standard belts but cost more. Are you going to use the SC wheels? They are likely coarse (mine were 100 and 220) and they really add to the mess generated. If you use the SC you will need to use the overhead water. I would convert to diamond while it is apart if it was me. Then again, it is always easier to spend someone else' money.
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Post by Roller on Jun 2, 2010 10:51:44 GMT -5
I was thinking of playing in sic for a lil while but converting to diamond ... I might just skip the playing around than ...Because I dont wanna waste money ..I"ll probably just go with the spritzer water supply ....How much do pumps cost for overhead ... Update I just won a Dayton motor brandy new on ebay for $30 plus 11 shipping ... cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330437326087&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&autorefresh=true Now I need a pulley ... not sure which one but I think its a 1/2 inch harbor and then I have to measure the pulleys on the hp ... Going to cut up the table to hold the unit today later on ..build legs and so on ... Probably going to put wheels on the bottom ....
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 2, 2010 11:06:25 GMT -5
I think I paid $20 for Home Depot's smallest pump but have to keep bucket next to unit because pump won't lift water high enough. You might check Harbor Freight. I don't think the air pump would work very well with SC wheels. The wheel grinds off with the rock making sludge that would either clog the air fitting or contaminate your work. I'd consider captbob's expanding drum/belt suggestion also. Two drums with diamond belts would give you lots of wheels (diamond goes up to 100,000).
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Post by Roller on Jun 2, 2010 12:44:01 GMT -5
okay ..lost me a little bit there but I"ll just go back to the pulley for now ..I dont know what the pump looks like and I have never seen one .I will just buy a spritzer system ... .. I am assuming the pulley wheel on the machine has to match the pulley i connect to the motor spindle...Iam nit sure of the motor spindle size yet but when I get it I will get back to the thread probably in a week ..If I decide to paint it ...Any recommendations for paint?...Thanks Greg ...
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Post by Woodyrock on Jun 3, 2010 1:06:20 GMT -5
Greg:
Everybody differs in what colours they like, but a paint that looks good on machines is the one in a spray can that drys mottled. Called hammer stone, or something like that. Most hardware or paint store carry it in a variety of colours. It is a tough paint made for machines. Woody
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Post by Roller on Jun 3, 2010 7:37:44 GMT -5
Thanks Woody going to look around for some of that today .... I was just worried with all the water if I should put some kind of sealer on it so that it doesnt chip away ... I will look for the hammerstone... Almost done with the rolling table ... Bought 5 wheels 2 with brakes for the front ... If the unit moves which I dont think it will since it will be on carpet I will just legthen two of the legs and remove two wheels on one side and add handles to one side so I can pick up one side and move ... but for now Iam trying to keep it small for space ... So far so good ...
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 3, 2010 8:00:44 GMT -5
That's the paint I use too. I think it is "Hammertone" . It "encapsulates rust" which means you don't need a primer and it gives a dimpled finish which looks professional and hides minor flaws. It costs more than standard spray paints but well worth it. As far as pulley for motor once you know shaft size (will be 1/2" or 5/8") if you buy one that matches the smallest groove on the HP you will have 1725 rpm. Moving belt to larger grooves will give you lower speeds. 1725 works for most drums and wheels but slower speeds are nice for polishing sometimes.
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Post by Tonyterner on Jun 3, 2010 14:48:59 GMT -5
I've used machines with both drip and spritz. You've used Amber's with the spritz, mine has a drip. I personally like the drip better since its always using clean water, no worries of contamination. As far as messiness goes I think the spritz is just as messy as the drip but my machine has really deep wells to catch a lot of the spray. I've installed pieces of clear report covers on both the machines to reduce the spray and they do a good job. Just make sure the piece goes down far enough to actually touch the wheel.
If you are looking for an 8" expandable drum (didn't see the size listed anywhere but probably just missed it) I have on extra one sitting in my shop that you can have.
You have used diamond wheels but I'm not sure if you have tried SIC yet. They are much much slower. I started out with SIC but quickly moved to diamond belts on an expanding drum due to the speed. Some here use SIC with great success but I'm just too impatient for that. If you are going SIC consider just getting a diamond course wheel. That's the one you spend the most time on.
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