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Post by mohs on May 23, 2014 17:19:08 GMT -5
This was found in the general vicinity of my backyard  It is an unusual stone for the Phoenix area I think its either a chert of a flint? Obviously, it breaks conchoidally Wondering if it's a knapped flake from the Hohokam Indians? Could an expert tell if the breaks were knapped or natural breaks? Thanks for your attention in this matter Ed |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 23, 2014 19:21:22 GMT -5
Hard to say in my opinion Ed. If I found it here in Atlanta I would say yes since flint and chert is 100 miles away.
Mowers makes nice scrapers. those are tough calls. If you are in a snapping area you may fing 100's of pieces like that.
if you find other artifacts then it raises the probability, or small chips. sure is some solid looking stuff.
It's not obsidian is it ?
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Post by mohs on May 23, 2014 19:47:23 GMT -5
Hi James
Pretty sure its not obsidian
Although that a good guess
From the photo.
It’s a real fine-grained rock
It would have been highly valued by the Hohokam’s
& is not common rock to the Phoenix area
The Hohokam Indians searched out flint type material
& did trading far and wide.
Now obsidian and quartzite
(which is another possibility)
is located 40 miles out of the Valley
as the geography/altitude climbs into the mountains.
But my immediate area where I reside
this is ground zero for the main Hohokam settlement,
SnakeTown as it was called in the old days.
Now its Pueblo Grande Museum and is just a stones throw away.
An archaeological dig is in field behind me
Where bucket loads of pottery shard lie about.
People 80 years would find artifacts all the time.
But they are getting scarcer in the residential zones now.
So it’s possible,
that by the type of rock and the breaks
that it was knapped.
Although looking at it again I’m inclined to say no.
Definitely though… 800 years ago,
if a Hohokam had saw it lying on the ground;
it would have gotten picked up!
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Post by jamesp on May 23, 2014 20:55:32 GMT -5
It is good to be aware of your find. I will say that you may find 2 or 3 just like it. May check out the museum to see if any duplicates exist.
Or artifacts made of that durable looking black stone Those guys had preferred stone to work with. Just like Guns and Roses prefer brownstone
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Post by mohs on May 23, 2014 21:22:13 GMT -5
I’m due to go the museum. It is really a neat place.
Inside are all the artifacts, with great descriptions
and hands on stuff
Then take the outdoor tour.
There is this huge mound
W/lots of adobe homes, kiva’s ect…
Plus a humongous dug out ball court
The Hohokam liked their sports
You can just imagine a Sunday game
With tribes coming from all around
The area must 50 acres large
And it’s a trip to see this ancient city
Amidst the modern urban sprawl
Most Phoenicians don’t even know its there!
The canal system the Hohokam dug to irrigate the valley
rivals perhaps, many other ancient achievements.
These many canals that crisscross the valley for
hundreds of miles were only dug with stone tools
(basalt mostly) & sticks.
Phoenix rose again when the 1860’s gold prospector
& pioneers re-dug these ancient canal and made the valley
an agricultural center again.
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Post by mohs on May 23, 2014 21:55:21 GMT -5
well the Hohokam were into rock too!  I found their Rolling Stone tongue mostly |
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 7:01:47 GMT -5
them 2 look like serious trouble. Is that gr with you ? Let me know which dark alley you guys travel. I'll pick the other-ha.
It is a mind bender to grasp ancient civilization that walked on the same ground as we do today.
Explorer William Bartram recorded and hired native man in his travels for England late 1700's.
Some bizarre behavior noted. It comes in a paper back. He travelled down many of the rivers
that I spend time on. Makes my mind wonder as to what he saw and experienced. Remember the
movie Apocalypse Now ? Hopefully nothing like that.
The tongue is quite a home wrecker. Never imagined such to be fossilized. However, if it were to be
found I would depend on Mr. Mohs to accomplish such.
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Post by mohs on May 24, 2014 9:27:42 GMT -5
Yep that is Gary. I'm concerned about him. Haven't talk with his m since Q and
left a message on his cell phone last week. No reply.
Yor Right James.
Walking where ancient were can be a strange consideration.
Toss in roaming dinosaurs at my rock’n heart factory
And I start thinking rockadabbadoo...
As to Apocalypse Now
one of my favorite lines
is:
careful of the monkeys--they bite
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 12:00:56 GMT -5
Arizona sure is a geological paradise. You are fortunate to be there.
Archeology too. It is good.
Next time I go I want to climb a Saguaro cactus bare foot.
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Post by mohs on May 24, 2014 12:55:01 GMT -5
your a better man than me James! That never crossed my mind But I’m sure some unfortunate Hohokam had to ! I saw nature show where a pack of javelina chased a wild cat up a Saguaro! Darn cat at was at the top of a 100’ Sauguaro while the javelina were circling the base in the blazing hot sun Brutal! Later I’ll post my picks of the archeological dig I was also thinking of going to the museum today My car decided not to cooperate on my plans to drive up to Show Low. There is rock mineral show at Hondah casino I wanted to attend. Plus take care of some visiting business. Maybe I’ll road trip tomorrow Or I’ll just hang out and work rock yep Arizona pretty darn cool for few days out of the year  mostly |
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 15:59:00 GMT -5
Javelina would provoke any thing up a tree. Those tusks speak volumes. Poor cat.
Must of gotten one too many baby javelinas and the order of javelina motherhood decided go thru due process.
Sounds like a tall task. That's a tall cactus. A mesquite would get it out of reach, no?
The cat must have a lot of respect for the little warthogs.
Have a good time at the show and stopping by to do your business. Hope you will find some fine hearthstone.
Roll a dice for me whilst you are there.
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Post by mohs on May 24, 2014 17:57:55 GMT -5
I think the lesson here is Some day’s ya just can’t find a mesquite tree To save your life  let me know if the picture shows and if the link is any good infopedia2011.blogspot.com/2011/08/wild-cat-got-stuck-up-cactus.htmlmy slo mohs connetion ya know heck there a mesquite tree right next to it but in this case it was mountain lion chasing a bob cat some days are just like that mostly |
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 21:05:23 GMT -5
Oh my. That is a bad day. Best go up the cactus if Mr. M Lion is after you. That is the darndest place to be.
a very bad day.
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Post by mohs on May 24, 2014 23:05:37 GMT -5
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Post by jamesp on May 25, 2014 14:49:46 GMT -5
Imagine digging those in the Arizona weather. They didn't get paid to look good like me and you Ed ! |
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Post by jamesp on May 25, 2014 15:06:53 GMT -5
Many fish weirs on N. Georgia rivers. Find a weir, climb the river bank adjacent, hope for plowed soil, and watch out for farmer McDonald and double barrel. Start collecting arrows. There is about 6 in six miles on the Etowah near the Etowah mound site. One field I visited w/permission and collected about a 5 gal. bucket in the acre camp area over a 10 year period. Never matched a single one of them. You could climb the high hill in the middle of a 180 degree in the river and look out over about 1500 acres. There was about 4 weirs along that stretch. and you could easily see the charcoal stains in the plowed soil about 2-5 acres each in size at each weir. The weir served as a crossing for game and human. The campfires stained the soil I suppose. Flint debitage was thick.  |
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Post by jamesp on May 25, 2014 15:11:13 GMT -5
Another small weir. Looks like higher altitude than Etowah.  |
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Post by mohs on May 25, 2014 16:30:55 GMT -5
I'll bet most of those smart hoho migrated up to the mountains in the summer
wish the picture was larger
I reside south-wet of casa de loma area
in the Jack Swilling District
in a larger map you'll see platz 16
farther south-west of the casa de loma
that would be the original town site of Phoenix est.. 1860's
Jacob Waltz homesteaded there....
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Post by mohs on May 25, 2014 16:55:44 GMT -5
James: In 1990, living in Denver, the job offered a choice
to move to either Alpharetta or Orlando. I chose Orlando.
Did I make the right choice ?
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Post by mohs on May 25, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5
A better map  You see the Swilling Castle in Platz 12 that where I reside The ruins are just south of it South west is area 16 and Jacob Waltz homestead this is where the original town site was located people still metal detect this area cause the lost Dutchman lived there and was known to bury gold. But its in my area where the Swilling tunnels exist |
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