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Post by oregon on May 22, 2020 13:23:21 GMT -5
cigarboxrock.com/new-equipment/ Have a look at the 2nd product on this page. It is a variable speed polish kit, designed to handle much larger rocks. Comes with everything you would need too. That's NOT a water fed grinder, priced like one though?!
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Post by oregon on May 21, 2020 15:34:43 GMT -5
The Belts are intact, And it does not turn almost at all. doesn't bode well, remove the belts to make sure it's not the countershaft bearings that are seized. Otherwise I'd disassemble the motor to free it up, there are/were greased bearings in there.
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Post by oregon on May 21, 2020 13:32:33 GMT -5
flip it over, see if the belts are intact, see if the motor turns easily by hand. or just ship it to me
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Post by oregon on May 21, 2020 11:13:22 GMT -5
Those 2 mods(add hopper mass and lowering the hopper) turns the Vibrasonic into a wicked soft materials tumbling machine. I wish the designer of this machine was aware of this when he built it. It is about impossible to bruise glass with the mods, quite remarkable of a discovery. maybe bolting a plate of steel on the underside of the top would be an easy mod?
I think you are exactly correct here oregon . The rings are likely a minor impact. However, when a machine is shaking a chunk of mass at +3000 vibs/minute it is totally vulnerable to being numbed due to mass additions. Adding mass on a spring/mass system like this is the easiest and cheapest way to go to reduce destructive amplitudes in most cases. In the case of the Vibrasonic a new hopper that sits lower has a big impact because it brings the rocks closer to the vibration source where the amplitude is less. The taller the hopper the way bigger the amplitude. yeah, unlike the lot-o, the barrel(s) ' motion is not as restricted. I think the loto is a little easier to think about as a hinge point where it sits on the dowel rod. I think the viking base has more freedom, so it's motion may be more of a circular procession as apposed to a shaking back and forth. Different forces in the vertical and horizontal directions... But some sort of eliptical motion seems like it should also lend itself to gentler action? illustrator scribblings from a few weeks back. Wonder how a loto on four coiled spring feet would work...
morning coffee is finished...
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Post by oregon on May 20, 2020 21:21:11 GMT -5
I've heard tell of bright blue/opal eggs from out there - have any of those?... wish it wasn't soooo far.
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Post by oregon on May 20, 2020 10:52:17 GMT -5
I checked the stiffness of the old o-rings to the new batch and found the new batch quite a bit stiffer. Noticeable when trying to streeeeetch them over the sheaves ! 4 very stiff springs on that machine, they may easily overcome the difference in belt tension. Anyway, no difference in tumbling performance whatsoever. I have tumbled 4 batches with the new stiffer o-rings and all went like normal. Very cool jig for bonding the urethane. Geez, the melt weld for HDPE plastic is incredibly strong. No surprise urethane would bond just as well. I will say, if you lower the hopper or add weight to the hopper it will tame the Vibrasonic. It's achilles heel. Pursuing reliable belts is a great idea. My only complaint about that machine.
The one factory belt that came with mine is significantly larger than the 3" O-ring, but the urethane is not as stretchy as the nitrile. Urethane comes in different flavors as well.
I'm also thinking that 'pull' of the orings is a pretty minor component of the motion, but I have to think about this machine more.
"I will say, if you lower the hopper or add weight to the hopper it will tame the Vibrasonic. It's achilles heel."
Think this makes sense as F=ma, so if the main force is generated from the spinning counterweight , increasing the mass should decrease the acceleration. Imagine for grinding that impacts with more force are more likely to grind till you reach a critical 'fracture' point? .... morning coffee musings.
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Post by oregon on May 19, 2020 16:05:38 GMT -5
yeah looking at the professional setup to make urethane belts it seems pretty straight forward. I needed 3/16 belts for two other things so...
downloaded a parallel pliers file, modified the jaw and printed a pair. ordered 10' of 3/16 urethane and all is well. Not the simplest route, but fun to have a tool make a new tool. As James said, the viking is a complicated beast, so having reproducible belts is probably important. I have an original pair of nitrile Orings on there, still figuring this tumbler out but plan on some urethane belts once they go. look up Urethane belts and make your own, there's even a youtube video how to do it, it's dead easy and you can do it with a few simple tools from your kitchen. (cigarette lighter and a knife) I buy a bag of 50 o-rings on EBAY for $24. I am tired of changing them after 4 to 5 days running. Almost used 100 o-rings. I believe polyurethane is the best way for an o-ring drive belt. Nitrile and other sealing rubbers suck at being used for drive belts. Tired of bruising finger tips replacing them ! tims However... The elasticity of the drive belts does effect the spring behavior in that machine. The belts do pull the top section down onto the springs. It took a long time to dial the Sonic in for my purposes. I polish fickle glass in my Sonic and am not too interested in changing it's vibration characteristics at all. So I may stick with the nitrile. Or more accurately BUNA-N, which is probably nitrile. These on EBAY for $25: 50 Pack USA SEALING BUNA N Silicone O-Ring Size 337 Black 70A 3” I.D.
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Post by oregon on May 15, 2020 19:29:50 GMT -5
Ended up buying a Lot-O and have been doing lots of reading. The rockshed was very helpful and added lots of additional information in with my order. From what I've read it needs to be secured to a cement block or floor. The floor is out of the question but as far as cement blocks go are all created equal or has someone found an ideal arrangement? 2x6s make a nice frame for an 80lb bag of sand...screw it down to the top. just another option.
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Post by oregon on Apr 29, 2020 11:49:46 GMT -5
Really appreciate the attention to my malfunction. I intend to do some more posting after being dormant for a few years. Thanks "oregon", and I've got 3 words for you - Richardson's Rock Ranch. The Valhalla of rockhounds in the Northwest! If I can't dig, there isn't much reason for heading way out there. Not sure how they'll manage without being open to digging. bummer.
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Post by oregon on Apr 27, 2020 10:27:11 GMT -5
My theory is that the rod is just a tiny bit smaller (supposedly that is often the case with threaded rods) and it's enough to make it tilt. I tied filling in the end of the rod that goes into the coupling with epoxy and sanding it down so it fits the coupling very snugly. That made it run really great with minimal movement of the motor ... for about two days. Then the motor started moving around more and more finally basically coming so loose on the shaft that the feed rod stopped turning. I am now tightening it 2 times during each single cut so it stays on. I'll be calling HP tomorrow to figure out what would the price of a "proper" feed rod (finer threads, threads only where they're needed) would be. I was also considering trying a different style of coupling - the flexible ones or some such. Will see what the price for the rod is first though. Either way the slabs come out good enough for me - I'm making cabs out of them so I reshape and grind them anyway. I am more worried about having to literally babysit the feed motor during each cut and the motors being loaded possibly more than ideal. Before spending a lot of $ at the not HP company, Just go to lowes/home depot, get a section of threaded rod, cut it to length, and don't file down a spot for the set screw. just tighten it on the rod, some locktite on the set screw might help. That' probably only be a few bucks. if you change rods, you'll also have to change the split screw. $$$
3rpm motor (if you have it) would be 16/3 inch/min on that feed rod which should be ok.
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Post by oregon on Apr 26, 2020 11:07:32 GMT -5
2c here. the st-10 is, I believe,Lortone's earliest version of this saw. So the way it is set up is a bit different than the ls-10, and I think even some of the later st-10s. The design has improved a bit over time. There was a small flat ground on that rod, for that coupler, but the bronze bushings were also anchored to the feed rod and rotated inside the aluminum block that holds the main rod. That is changed in later models. They probably also machine threads on smooth rod rather than using stock threaded rod for the entire distance which makes a much tighter fit. I tried to anchor down the auto feed box, line up my new rod etc. Noticed the saw marks corresponded to the pitch of the feed screw. These little saws have a unique vise design, and if they were perfectly tight all would be fine, but there's always wear, a lot of brass to snug things up etc. But while I always found it odd that the Lortone saws never 'anchored' the auto feed motors inside the aluminum box, I now think that was an intentional design. Loosening up my autofeed motor, and giving the motor some 'flexibility' to move, made the autofeed rod move less, the vise moved less, and things cut much nicer. Also you want the shaft with the split screw to have the ability to slide side to side for the same reason. There are a lot of wear points on the vise for this saw, afraid mine needs some new bushings, cuts pretty well, but not perfect yet. 3cents worth.
but yeah, you can search for feed rates (mins/inch) on the forums here, I usually set things slower for a nicer cut...
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Post by oregon on Apr 25, 2020 21:35:39 GMT -5
original rods were 16 tpi, 3 rpm motor. replacements motors are 5 rpm? I made a new split nut, finer threaded rod.
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Post by oregon on Apr 24, 2020 1:00:25 GMT -5
yeah I tried a year or so back and gave up... Google wants the traffic revenue.
and if I click on the icon to add an image, give it the link above, a nice proper image shows up. Also not sure about all the sharing settings, but if you see a viking tumbler below, that image is hosted on google photos. My preview here looks fine
edit looks ok after posting... tried a couple browsers, logged out of google and reloaded the page and the image is still showing properly... My vague memory is that things seem to work and break shortly after. Maybe google's smart enough to realize and noggle this type of use? Tommy
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Post by oregon on Apr 23, 2020 11:56:52 GMT -5
I have a box of NOS parts I've been working through, seems like I've seen this switch tower on some machine, (sry a second lower half is also in my hand in the photo) It's just a set of switches for three outlets, but if it's meant to mount to a particular machine, that'd be nice to know. Was next to one of the Moffat lamps DP sells in the box of stuff. I can't seem to dredge up any pictures on Google or elsewhere, Anyone recognize it?
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Post by oregon on Apr 14, 2020 22:46:55 GMT -5
got some belts, Added a switch and printed some hopper covers. These viking tumblers are a serious beast. The motor had a reminder about lube, and as rock dust is pretty tough on stuff I figured I should take a gamble at re-lubing the motor. Actually turns out to be fairly easy. Get the motor out, split it open the rotor slides out in one piece, this version had open bearings on both ends, grease was pretty hardened, so cleaned out what I could, and packed them with fresh, reassembled. Hope it's good for another 10 years. Time for some experimentin.
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Post by oregon on Apr 13, 2020 11:10:59 GMT -5
I will do a WIP on the tree fort office. It makes sense and could be a popular concept fairly cheap to build. sounds fun, Always enjoy the Fire lookout experience, panoramic sunrises.... Lots of plans for those historic glass boxes around. Stools with glass insulator feet for lighting strikes included
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Post by oregon on Apr 11, 2020 20:01:04 GMT -5
Hey oregon , how much weight are you using with the gravity feed? scientifically determined two hunks of steel that came with it! I just redid this saw, will put it up for sale soon, so don't have a lot of experience with it. Cut a couple slabs by hand today, then with the gravity feed. Weight probably depends on the saw, the drag on the main bar, and the brass guide, and how hard I jam the bearing attachment in (above) all contribute to the friction, so... I think there's probably 3-5 lbs on there? Personally I'd rather see things cut slowly with a nicer cut than fast with a rougher surface. Not sure if that helps you.
for reference, catalog shows coffee can with sand. Powerfeed option and canopy hood. Just have to figure out how my canopy can fit with the deflector on there.
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Post by oregon on Apr 10, 2020 12:05:46 GMT -5
checking my e-10 1955 highland park 8'' trim saw. No hole for that part. And i see that your saw has cross feed adjustment / in 1955 they're dark green. gravity feed only. Jack This is the 10" version, has E6 cast on the table, no model/serial on The hp label. The bolt downs are cast into the aluminum tank which is uniquely trapezoidal... (Contrast that to the picture I stole in the first post, square box with tabs. ) I imagine this was an earlier version? (at least I don't see those features as upgrade) No idea what year this was made, but wouldn't surprise me if it sat in the garage for unused for 40-50 years.
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Post by oregon on Apr 9, 2020 16:06:00 GMT -5
The bearing rides on the under side of the table, the side with no bearing slides into a hole on the vise. I think it helps to prevent the rock from lifting up onto the blade while cutting with the weight feed. saw that hole when I had the vise off, but forgot about it... Cool. I looked at heaps of pics and never saw that part on a single saw. These things were well built/designed. definitely locks the vise down.
Bonus pic of a cool egg... blue/green highlights!
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Post by oregon on Apr 9, 2020 9:47:18 GMT -5
So, how do you use the bearing approach in a large slab saw without draining the oil? Do you put it in the vise and let the autofeed drive it into the blade until your hear the binding? I always wondered. I figure you just disconnect the autofeed motor/belt, turn it by hand... Let me know if it works for anyone.
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