chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Jun 29, 2012 9:46:11 GMT -5
No one knew which way the justices would rule; I think most people thought it would be overturned but no leaks from the justices themselves. There are arguments for either side as there are on so many legal issues.
The big surprise was having Chief Justice Roberts in favor! I guess I'm going to have to wonder if he has the right stuff. He had seemed to be an ideologue who favored business over people in all situations but this points in a whole different sort of justice, thank you.
It's funny to see Mitt claiming he will repeal it as soon as he is elected. He was for it in Liberal Massachusetts but against it now that he is running in Conservative America. He's got the stuff to get elected!
My hope is that this will actually happen and help us but it will continue to be a political hot potato for years to come. Our health care system needs changes that will not happen if only one party fights for the people of this country. We need both parties to take governing serious, cut out the waste and old programs and institute change for the present, not the past. Baaed on our current system,this seems impossible, but things have a way of changing when everything seems to be at a low point
Charlie
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Jun 29, 2012 11:48:52 GMT -5
Yeah Charlie, Lot of folks are scratching their heads today. After much reflection, I see this as a positive thing for the country. The notion that this was covered by the commerce clause was denied, but Roberts correctly said that congress has the power to tax us as they wish. It is now up to the voters to decide which direction to take our country. There are a few important differences between Romneycare and Obamacare. www.calldrmatt.com/Differences_Between_RomneyCare_and_ObamaCare.htmI am for some of the provisions, such as requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions. We do need reform, but not structured this way. Incidentally, Obamacare relies on a robust economy to pay the way, good luck with that. Bill
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 11:55:56 GMT -5
Don't you mean Obamatax is upheld ? You know, the tax that wasn't a tax, before it became a tax ? But not so fast there Charlie. Congress and Congress alone has the power to levy new taxes. No new tax and Obamatax goes down the tubes. Lets see Obummer mandate his way out of this one.
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Post by mohs on Jun 29, 2012 12:09:12 GMT -5
There is always a loophole and Roberts found it It seems like the Justice played politics and did all he could to assure a Romney victory yet-- you want Justices that will vote their conscious I’m not saying that what Justice Robert did was wrong but it was wickedly devious mostly
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 13:04:15 GMT -5
Obama got his " Victory ", and the money is pouring in for Romney. Looks like maybe it was a Republican victory after all.
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Post by parfive on Jun 29, 2012 14:16:41 GMT -5
Cool. I volunteered for my local Death Panel yesterday afternoon.
First meeting’s Tuesday.
Full disclosure: Parfive is now long on oversized coffins. ;D
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Post by mohs on Jun 29, 2012 14:35:50 GMT -5
Volunteer Death Panels? I was hoping that was going to be one of those well paying jobs well... as long as they don't outsource it I suppose, I'm for it mostly
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Post by parfive on Jun 29, 2012 14:52:44 GMT -5
Labor of love, Ed. Be a shame to tarnish it with dinero.
Of course, the stock options don’t count. You know how that goes.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 15:01:12 GMT -5
Cool. I volunteered for my local Death Panel yesterday afternoon. First meeting’s Tuesday. Full disclosure: Parfive is now long on oversized coffins. ;D Hah !! You only volunteered because you know I'm getting old. ;D ;D ;D
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Jun 29, 2012 15:05:48 GMT -5
Cool. I volunteered for my local Death Panel yesterday afternoon. First meeting’s Tuesday. Full disclosure: Parfive is now long on oversized coffins. ;D Hmmm, so. . . you are an undertaker? That would explain your support for this. haha Or. . . Ed, I thought perhaps Rich meant that he is volunteering to be the subject of the death panel. . . Very virtuous of him, but we would miss him... so Rich, don't do it! Admittedly anecdotal, this may make one pause and consider. . . SHOCK – Brain surgeon confirms ObamaCare rations care, has death panels! www.therightscoop.com/shock-brain-surgeon-confirms-obamacare-rations-care-has-death-panels/*thought you would appreciate my choice of site to reference." ;D
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Post by helens on Jun 29, 2012 17:41:58 GMT -5
Justice Roberts was Reagan's man... go go go Reagan:).
Obamacare isn't a 'tax' on anyone. ONLY people who CAN afford insurance and refuses to pay for it, will ever pay a penny in fines.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 17:50:53 GMT -5
Not fines Helen. TAXES. The lower middle class who are under employed and can"t afford health insurance are going to take the shaft on this one, while Obama's favorites, the illegals will continue to get it all for free. Remember when Obama continually told you, " NOT ONE DIME OF INCREASED TAXES ON THOSE EARNING UNDER $250,000 ?) Hah !! Fooled you.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 29, 2012 18:41:41 GMT -5
*L* There are like 21 tax hikes hidden in Obamcare. All you have to do is google it. Everything from the mandates for employers and individuals to tanning booths, to medical devices, to your employer provided plans, prescriptions, medicare payroll tax hikes, surtaxes on investment income etc etc. Obamacare is arguably the single largest TAX!!!!! hike in US history and everyone will be affected, even poor folks. Taxes on employers will obviously be passed on by them raising prices on products they sell. This bill is Obama's "No new Taxes " lie just as the first George Bush had his "no new taxes" stumbling block. Of course the Prez has told so many lies, who can even keep count....Mel
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Jun 29, 2012 18:47:50 GMT -5
I'd hate to break it to you guys, but the concept of a "death panel" has been around and in use for decades here in the US of A. Nobody got a heart or kidney without going through a review panel to figure out if the person was worthy of a transplant...not healthy enough to survive one, but truly worthy by having enough money, education, and a promising productive future. The guy out in the street? Not a chance. The guy with an MBA - no problem. That's life (and death) in the US.
I suppose all the fees the banks charge you for doing something that you should would be called a tax if they were owned by the government? I don't see how the fine assessed can be called a tax if it is assessed against a person that breaks a law?
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 19:04:03 GMT -5
It has to be a tax, or else SCOTUS would have thrown the whole damned thing out.
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Post by helens on Jun 29, 2012 21:00:15 GMT -5
It IS technically a tax, but it's only on people who are perfectly able to afford health insurance yet refuse to buy it on their own, preferring to go bankrupt or on Medicaid if they get sick... soaking the taxpayers. Scum like that will have to pay the tax. Boo hoo.
People who cannot afford health care get expanded medicaid or reduced premiums.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 21:05:56 GMT -5
And just who is going to pay for that expanded medicade ? Why it's us, the taxpayers via new or increased taxes. There's no free ride under Obamatax Helen.
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Post by helens on Jun 29, 2012 21:07:09 GMT -5
It's still cheaper than taxpayers paying for cancer or organ replacement when those without insurance at all end up in the ER without insurance.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 29, 2012 21:35:59 GMT -5
*L* Semantics huh? Technically a tax is a friggin tax, as are the other 20 taxes. The hidden taxes not described are all the costs that will result from this bill ie: Tons of extra IRS folks tax payers have to support, to enforce it, expenses passed down to the consumers in the products they buy, additional gobs of paperwork increased medical insurance costs etc. In addition, the experts say the bill is a job and economy killer which will cause lost tax revenues as people get laid off work and increase expenses as they go on unemployment , free medical, food stamps etc. It's also been suggested that with the IRS actually unable to handle the enforcement, that tons of folks will simply not pay the fines or not file taxes at all ( just like in Greece). Jails are full and expensive to keep folks in prison, what will they actually do since many of the folks caught up in the mandate and using those ER's are young rather unsettled types , illegals and such anyway. If masses of folks refuse to pay the tax, what will they do throw all of them in jail *L*?
Oh and medical rationing is just around the corner. I live in a small town with a large senior population and it's already becoming difficult to find a doctor that will take medicare and the cheaper insurance I've been forced to buy as my old one trebled in cost. My wife lost her doctor who will no longer take insurance at all. So much for getting to keep your old insurance or your old doctor., another Obama big fat whopper. A ton of doctors are just retiring too as the paperwork and lesser payments make it not worthwhile to keep their practices open....Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2012 21:52:51 GMT -5
Sure glad I'm getting old. Don't want to be around forever, paying for the medical care for the illegals and 99%ers.
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